Question here, be nice or get out the word?

[BitterLittleFlower]

I'm very involved with the single payer health care movement, many little actions and promoting bigger ones. At the same time, Move-on , Citizen Action, and other groups are supporting Obama's public option plan (which changes every day and is a set up for failure, as most know). Within our group are some who think we should be going to the Obama plan actions with single payer signs and fliers and talking to people. Others see this as a hostile action, that we could be offending potential future allies when the whole thing falls apart...I don't want to say where I stand (though many here could guess, I hope!) as I'd like to get honest opinions on this (and some tools to use to support my side...). Thought this might be a good discussion too.

[blindpig]

but dammit, he's changed it and I can't remember it rightly.

edit: thanks Kid

[Kid of the Black Hole]

insider rallies or are they trying to draw people to spread the word? If they're getting big crowds and then spreading their propganda, I'd say you could/should be doing the same.

If its just Obama wankfests, thats different

[Kid of the Black Hole]

In different times- less urgent times- there is much to be said for courtesy. But these are not those times.

[BitterLittleFlower]

There is going to be a Move-on rally tomorrow in Albany which precipitated this question. One of the folks in our group actually asked one of the people organizing how he felt about us joining , and he said that he had no problem as many folks prefer the single payer plan while supporting Obama's, but he also said he's asking the others. That said, at the last such rally which said we were welcome there were definitely some noses bent out of shape...

Still trying not to show my stance!! ;)

[BitterLittleFlower]

and I'll have to say I concur, when first I saw it, almost two years ago, I was But, but...he's right, and now you know where I stand. Its tough to battle with those who really want to play nice all the time, especially when its pretty much in jive with one's own personality...but! we gotta keep thinking about the goal and not the feelings of some...its crisis time, urgent time as Chlamor says...Gotta get that word out...

[BitterLittleFlower]

"MoveOn.org has asked all local event sponsors to try to make sure that only signs supporting a "public option" be displayed at the rally, and not signs calling for "single payer." This was in response to many questions on a national conference call about single payer advocates."

Will I stand across the street alone? Thinking about it...

[Kid of the Black Hole]

Or as Clint Eastwood once said, its time to get plum mean

[BitterLittleFlower]

are we more concerned about being perceived as hostile, or about getting out the correct information to the people?
Putting it another way will being perceived as hostile hurt our cause more than getting out the word that the public option just won't work?

Holding fast to that...awaiting replies...

[blindpig]

to hell with Move On. They are part of the problem, as are liberals in general.

Get the word out, the Dems are doing everything they can to smother single payer.

Mebbe I'm just hostile.

[TBF]

n/t

[Tinoire]

MoveOn is the worse organization to "ally" oneself with if you want real change. "offending potential future allies" That's a good one.

MoveOn is war-loving *Liberal* organization that has no intention of standing with the people. The cute little stunts they pull to pretend that the Iraq and Afghan wars don't matter to their members should disqualify them right there except that people are being *nice*.

That stimulus package? Courtesy of MoveOn. They're status quo and don't give a rat's ass about healthcare. They stabbed the Peace Movement in the back and are doing the same to healthcare.

What do the people who advocate being nice think they're going to gain from a possible, maybe, pretty-please, future alliance with Obama's new Lobby Corp?

What kind of tools are you looking for?

[div class=excerpt style=background:#FEFEFF]
MoveOn in 2009: Lobbying for Obama's Agenda

The Financial Times noted in late January, 2009 that [link:www.ft.com/cms/s/0/bfaef55a-ee2d-11dd-b791-0000779fd2ac.html?nclick_check=1|"with precisely zero votes from Republican lawmakers] for his $819 billion stimulus package, Barack Obama’s bipartisan aspirations may already be in tatters ... but White House officials are pinning great hopes on peeling off moderate Republicans in the Senate when it votes on the package next week." A coalition including MoveOn, Americans United for Change, and the unions SEIU and AFSCME have launched a TV ad campaign to pressure Republican senators to vote with Obama

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=MoveOn
[/quote]

[Two Americas]

"MoveOn.org has asked all local event sponsors to try to make sure that only signs supporting a "public option" be displayed at the rally, and not signs calling for "single payer." This was in response to many questions on a national conference call about single payer advocates."

We should be protesting and opposing Moveon.org.

[Two Americas]

It is not a choice of be nice or get out the word. It is "do whatever is effective."

Expressing a dissenting opinion is "hostile" and not "being nice?" WTF? That makes it pretty damned clear what the whole "play nice" and "civility" stuff is really all about, doesn't it?

[BitterLittleFlower]

what's happening is some are playing both sides, and many people are confused about stuff, think that public option is really something that might eventually bring in single payer. Good response this evening, not sure what the plan is going to be for the small rally, but definitely not going to let them take over the movement...Great turtle btw.

[BitterLittleFlower]

:)

[BitterLittleFlower]

didn't really like it from the get go that much, I'm hoping some of them will be coming over to our side...

the propaganda for this stuff is thick and ooozy, unctuous I'd say...

[BitterLittleFlower]

We were hoping to co-opt their rally with signs of our own, our group is a labor group purely for single payer, when we went to the other rally, we were able to convince some that single payer was the best way, that wasn't sponsored as much by Move on though......

What I'm looking for, and think I've got it now, is how to talk our group into being able to take away their ability to sway people to Obama's plan, that's all...we're grassroots, they are embedded status quo...

[BitterLittleFlower]

"Public Option only if there is no Private Option"

"Single Payer is the ONLY Option".

[Kid of the Black Hole]

Quality Healthcare for EVERYONE

or even Patients > Profits