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Thread: The Self Made Myth

  1. #1

    The Self Made Myth

    Our nation has a deep and proud history of coming together in the face of adversity and challenge. When the Soviets launched Sputnik-1 the first manmade satellite to orbit the Earth on October 4, 1957 a challenge had been made. Americans rallied in response and development for new aerospace technologies. Education programs across the nation were ramped up with a new focus on science and math. The space race was on.

    Many astronauts put their lives on the line, and some lives were lost. But on July 20, 1969 the Apollo Lander successfully touched down and the first human set foot on the Moon. This story represents only one of many such moments in our history when Americans came together and solved a problem.

    In the days following World War II, Americans mobilized to help retuning veterans rejoin the economy. Massive public investments in individual opportunity resulted in the GI Bill that enabled those veterans to attend college and buy a home, helping to sow the seeds of an unprecedented period of economic prosperity and rapid expansion of the middle class.

    THE SELF MADE MYTH is the assertion that individual and business success is the result of the personal characteristics of exceptional individuals, such as hard work, creativity, and sacrifice, with little or no outside assistance. Those who subscribe to the myth do so only by ignoring the contributions of society, the supports made possible through governmental action, any head start a person may have received, and just plain old luck. The perpetuation of the self-made myth has profound and destructive impacts on our views of government and the public policy debates of our times.

    While its influence has ebbed and flowed over time. The myth of the self-made man has deep roots in our society dating back to America’s earliest history. In a frontier nation with abundant resources, it was argued any man (women and people of color were largely excluded in those early years) could, through industry and sound character, achieve financial success.

    Horatio Alger’s novels told and retold stories of the poor county boy who made good while waves of writers touted the accomplishments of nineteenth century industrialist and entrepreneurs who seemingly rose from rags to riches as testament to the “truth". There were early skeptics who raised legitimate questions. But the story stuck and remains deeply embedded in our national character.

    In the mid-twentieth century, Ayn Rand brought the self-made man story to new extremes with a book that is nearly required reading for conservative activist today. In Rand’s 1957 novel Atlas Shrugged, great men are responsible not only for their own success and wealth, but, for the success and wealth of the entire world around them. Like the Greek Titan Atlas, they hold the world up on their shoulders. In this fictional world depicted by Rand, the great minds and the self-made titans of industry create virtually all wealth and prosperity in our society. Government only gets in the way.

    The tension between society’s contributions and those of the individual are evident in our dialogues today. In a national televised interview, in USA Today op-ed by Abigail Disney, where she spoke of the role that public investments, including roads, courts and schools played in making her families’ fortune possible. The other guest on the show nearly exploded, “it wasn’t government! it was one man!....An entrepreneur named Walt Disney!” This statement overlooks not only society’s contribution, but, also, the contributions of Walt’s brother and business partner Roy Disney, grandfather of Abigail.

    The tendency of our culture to attribute financial success solely to the actions of a single individual is a reflection of the self-mad myth in the United States. When pundits or candidates describe progressive taxes as “punishing success”, the implication is that success is achieved by the entrepreneur alone with little or no help from others. I don’t prescribe to that view.

    To choose just one example, public funded research from government agencies like the National Institute of Health has produced economically and medically valuable products that financially benefit both the research institution itself and the entrepreneurs who develop those products. You may agree with me that this public investment also delivers an enormous benefit for all of us. Well, sadly I guess now only for those fortunate enough to afford it.

    A quick glance at the past eighty years shows that we have had periods of tremendous economic growth in this country when top marginal tax rates were high, putting a lie to the notion that raising taxes on upper income taxpayers will stunt growth. It is critical to change the conversation about how wealth is created, who creates it, and the role of government.

    Some argue that we should not tax the wealthy because these individuals earned their wealth alone and, as such, government has no right to tax it. But for one thing that ignores the fact that the Untied States is a market place where goods and services are sold and profits are made from these sales. Try telling Wall Mart that because all the goods they sell on their shelves are products produced by others and not Wall Mart, therefore they have no right to charge a fee. You'll quickly see these people make the point that Wall Mart has every right to charge a fee because those goods were sold in a market that is owned by Wall Mart. Well, likely so, we the people of the United States equally have every right to charge a fee (tax) for the goods and services which are sold in our market the United States of America.

    In addition there is another view that begins with an understanding that no one is an island. No one starts a business or creates a social vacuum. There are things we do together through our tax dollars and public expenditures that create the fertile ground for wealth creation. Without these social investments, i.e. education, scientific research and infrastructure, etc., there would be significantly less private wealth.

    One great fact of the self-made myth is the personal stories from successful business leaders wouldn’t have been possible without the web of societal support that made their private wealth possible. Schools, libraries, public transportation, scholarships, research grants, large public institutions that protect property rights, the building and maintaining of infrastructure, etc. all are a necessary foundation to facilitate a stable marketplace.

    Taxes are the price we pay to live in a healthy society with adequate services, infrastructure and equal opportunity. For future generations to have the same opportunities, we each have to pay forward to ensure that the ground remains healthy and productive.

    The self-made myth is a story that is told and retold at every level of society and infused into our language and thinking. I believe that all Americans must engage in this dialog, including that uncle you always argue about taxes with at holidays, your high school classmate who doesn’t understand your politics and the person who owns the local shop who’s always complaining about taxes and government, that is if he or she is still around and has not already had their business swallowed up by big box warehouses like Wall Mart, etc.

    For you conservatives out there. The self-made myth is a bullshit story. As Thomas Paine said in his famous publication "Common Sense".


    "....the strength of one man is so unequal to his wants, and his mind so unfitted for perpetual solitude, that he is soon obliged to seek assistance and relief of another, who in his turn requires the same. Four or five united would be able to raise a tolerable dwelling in the midst of a wilderness, but one man might labour out the common period of life without accomplishing any thing."

    -Thomas Paine ("Common Sense")

  2. #2
    I want to encourage you to post here. Don't take a lack of response to your post as a sign of unfriendliness. Actually Pop, it is quite the opposite. There are many difficulties with your piece (American exceptionalism, the citing of higher taxes as the cause of expansion and prosperity in the fifties of the last century, the assumption of competition between the peoples of the Soviet Union and the USA, the assumption of public ownership of almost anything in this country, the idea that this nation was constituted for anything other than the facilitation of business, and other things as well). This piece is a liberal lament - "if we could just go back to the way we used to be, then everything would be great again." When, in fact, it was never "great" (or even "good") except for a slightly larger minority then than it is "great" for now.

    I think we all want you to come and read and post and join in. But most everyone here is through with the "way things used to be" and are looking forward to a complete turnover; where the bottom will be the top and the top will need to go to work.

    It is good to hear from you again.
    "The present status of society is but the result of the struggle of humankind during this and preceding periods - yes, struggle! "You cannot reform society by the sprinkling of rose oil" said Mirabeau, and history proves the correctness of this statement. In no age did the rulers and despoilers of our race relinquish their hold upon the throat of their victims, unless forced to - by logic and argument? No...Blood, the precious sap was ever the price of liberty." August Spies, 1886

  3. #3
    Thanks Dhalgren.

    Its been a while since I've been here and glad to see the board is still here. Like most, if not all, of us former DU'ers, I am of the same school of thought; done with the "way things used to be" as you point out. If my memory serves me correctly I think it was exactly that which brought a lot of us to this board from the DU board. Its very frustrating today and seems to only be getting worse doesn't it?

    However, I must also disagree (not completely, just a bit) with the assertion of not being interested in the way things used to be. Because certainly there are plenty of things about our country's past & present any liberal minded person is absolutely not interested in i.e. discrimination of women and minorities, laissez faire or supply side economics, big-stick/gun boat policies, corruption, corporate hegemonic empire, excessive authority, and the list goes on and on.

    Nevertheless I believe there are also plenty of how the way things used to be which, as a liberal, I think we would like to see. For example: The size, strength and influence unionized labor once had at its peak and even more so for that matter. Also, major spending programs that addressed education, medical care, urban problems, and transportation such as FDR's New Deal policies or LBJ's Great Society policies, etc. In my opinion these things failed because of conservative opposition to them. But I am also of the opinion, and I think this is also what brought many of us former DU liberals here to this board, that we're also fed up with all the "sell-outs" who are suppose to be on our side and promote these liberal ideas as well as maintenance them.

    Anyway Dhalgren I think we're both on the same page when looking back at our past and failing to identify any "time period" which was great. Because I think you're correct. Unfortunately I don't think there's been any time period which was great. Its just I think there have been things in our past I'd like to see continue, but continue un-abated.

    As for the OP I posted. Well its mostly a rant against conservatives because I am sure there are some conservative lurkers.

    Thanks again Dhalgren and its good to hear from you again as well. And I'll try and post more offten now that I have a little bit more free time again.

    Take care,

  4. #4
    Nevertheless I believe there are also plenty of how the way things used to be which, as a liberal, I think we would like to see. For example: The size, strength and influence unionized labor once had at its peak and even more so for that matter.
    Well, Pop, i am decidedly not a liberal, so I cannot speak to that. But it was liberals in the 40s and 50s who spearheaded the communist witch hunts, that gutted almost all of the unions in this country and set the unions on the road to superfluousness and liquidation. So no pining for a return to that.

    Also, major spending programs that addressed education, medical care, urban problems, and transportation such as FDR's New Deal policies or LBJ's Great Society policies, etc. In my opinion these things failed because of conservative opposition to them.
    Well there certainly was, has been, and continues to be opposition to any governmental programs designed specifically to benefit working class people. But the true "failure" of these and similar programs is that the overarching economic/political system cannot be "fixed"; it cannot be reformed, or tweaked or "made to work for everyone". The capitalist system will always revert/evolve/develop into the world destroyer that it, at heart, is. All "fixes" are systemically short lived, regardless of which capitalist faction "opposes" them. And instead of the bosses bending down to help out the poor, unfortunate, workers, why not fight for working class power? Whoa! Now, no one is going THAT far! Why not?

    Unfortunately I don't think there's been any time period which was great. Its just I think there have been things in our past I'd like to see continue, but continue un-abated.
    Well, I aim for better than that. I don't care for the goal of better treatment of workers by the bosses, I want to do away with the bosses. If, along the way to turning the society upside down, we can secure some concessions from the bosses, that would be great - but not as an end in itself.

    I don't think that the two of us are on the same page, but maybe in the same book? Anyway, it is good to continue to hash things out...
    "The present status of society is but the result of the struggle of humankind during this and preceding periods - yes, struggle! "You cannot reform society by the sprinkling of rose oil" said Mirabeau, and history proves the correctness of this statement. In no age did the rulers and despoilers of our race relinquish their hold upon the throat of their victims, unless forced to - by logic and argument? No...Blood, the precious sap was ever the price of liberty." August Spies, 1886

  5. #5
    Hey Popol did you use to have a different username?

  6. #6
    Hmmm, I didn't realize Dhalgren that liberals had anything to do with the communist witch hunts during 40's and 50's. I was just always under the impression that Joseph McCarthy and ilk were the only ones responsible.

    As for the current system being un-fixable and being a system which inevitably collapses. I couldn't agree more with you on that as well, because the biggest problem (among others) I see with this current system is it relies upon infinite growth to sustain it, which of course is impossible because sooner or later its going to run right smack into scarcity. So just on that basis alone our current system is doomed to collapse. Actually there's an excellent video illustrating this and I'll go ahead and post it below.

    Well, it would seem as though we might be on the same page with some things, but, not exactly everything. I myself believe there should be some mixture of socialism (much more than we currently have) with a bit of regulated capitalism. But also, as with the early United States, I think only the States should approve business charters and only on the basis that it benefits the public more than it does private interests. In addition, as with the early United States, I think businesses should not be allowed to own any kind of stock or other investments in other companies. Also, and again as with the early United States, I think businesses should not be allowed to spend any money whatsoever on politics.



    Anyway, check out the first forty minutes of this video. The information is pretty scary.





    Take care,

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Kid of the Black Hole View Post
    Hey Popol did you use to have a different username?

    Hello Kid of the Black Hole.

    On this forum no. On the DU yes. My first DU username was Popol Vuh. But Popol Vuh got tomb stoned for posting critically about Obama during his first campaign. So I made another username, "Xicano", who eventually got tomb stoned as well for basically the same reason - posting critically about where the Democratic arm of what is really now the U.S. Corporate party and how it doesn't represent poor and working people's interests anymore and at best it mostly just pays lip service in my opinion.

    Take care,

  8. #8
    Hey Popol! I only asked because I thought maybe you posted on a different on here before. I haven't read DU in years -- actually I haven't been allowed on DU in years..

  9. #9
    Yeah DU seems more concerned about tribalism (my team must win no matter what) than concerns about what elected officials are doing once elected. Disappointing in my opinion...

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Popol Vuh View Post
    Yeah DU seems more concerned about tribalism (my team must win no matter what) than concerns about what elected officials are doing once elected. Disappointing in my opinion...
    Which only goes to show that 'politics' in the bourgeois democracy is pretty much a distraction from the way that policy is actually executed. The policy of either party is overwhelmingly favorable to ruling class interests, the differences minor, sometimes picking winners and losers among competing ruling class interests, always debating the degree of punitive reaction to be inflicted upon the working class. Some democracy...there can only be democracy when the people are represented by themselves, not bourgeois punks offering themselves as 'the lesser of two evils'.

  11. #11
    bourgeois punks offering themselves as 'the lesser of two evils'.
    Yeah, and every 4 years everyone seems to lose their minds and say, "we can't let THAT guy in we have to vote for THIS guy!" It is disheartening. And in a few months, the folks who caved in and voted for the "less guilty guy" will say, "never again!" Until next time...
    "The present status of society is but the result of the struggle of humankind during this and preceding periods - yes, struggle! "You cannot reform society by the sprinkling of rose oil" said Mirabeau, and history proves the correctness of this statement. In no age did the rulers and despoilers of our race relinquish their hold upon the throat of their victims, unless forced to - by logic and argument? No...Blood, the precious sap was ever the price of liberty." August Spies, 1886

  12. #12
    Hey Dhal, remember when Nikos posted an excerpt Mark wrote about the (Prussian) State?

    Why did not Napoleon simply decree the abolition of beggary at a stroke? This question is just as valid as that of our “Prussian" who asks: “Why does the King not decree the education of all deprived children at a stroke?” Does the “Prussian” understand what the King would have to decree? Nothing over that the abolition of the proletariat. To educate children it is necessary to feed them and free them from the need to earn a livelihood. The feeding and educating of the entire future proletariat, would mean the abolition of the proletariat and pauperism.

    For a moment the Convention had the courage to decree the abolition of pauperism, not indeed “at a stroke,” as the “Prussian" requires of his King, but only after instructing the Committee of Public Safety to draw up the necessary plans and proposals and after the latter had made use of the extensive investigation by the Constituent Assembly into the state of poverty in France and, through Barer, had proposed the establishment of the “Livre de la beinfaisance nationale” [Book of national charity], etc. What was achieved by the decree of the Convention? Simply that there was now one decree more in the world and that one year later starving women besieged the Convention.

    The Convention, however, represented the maximum of political energy, political power and political understanding.

    No government in the whole world has issued decrees about pauperism at a stroke and without consulting authorities. The English Parliament even sent emissaries to all the countries in Europe in order to discover the different administrative remedies in use. But in their attempts to come to grips with pauperism every government has struck fast at charitable and administrative measures or even regressed to a more primitive stage than that.

    Can the state do otherwise?

    The state will never discover the source of social evils in the “state and the organization of society,” as the Prussian expects of his King. Wherever there are political parties each party will attribute every defect of society to the fact that its rival is at the helm of the state instead of itself. Even the radical and revolutionary politicians look for the causes of evil not in the nature of the state but in a specific form of the state which they would like to replace with another form of the state.

    From a political point of view, the state and the organization of society are not two different things. The state is the organization of society. In so far as the state acknowledges the existence of social grievances, it locates their origins either in the laws of nature over which no human agency has control, or in private life, which is independent of the state, or else in malfunctions of the administration which is dependent on it. Thus England finds poverty to be based on the law of nature according to which the population must always outgrow the available means of subsistence. From another point of view, it explains pauperism as the consequence of the bad will of the poor, just as the King of Prussia explains it in terms of the unchristian feelings of the rich and the Convention explains it in terms of the counter-revolutionary and suspect attitudes of the proprietors. Hence England punishes the poor, the Kings of Prussia exhorts the rich and the Convention heheads the proprietors.

    Lastly, all states seek the cause in fortuitous or intentional defects in the administration and hence the cure is sought in administrative measures. Why? Because the administration is the organizing agency of the state.

    The contradiction between the vocation and the good intentions of the administration on the one hand and the means and powers at its disposal on the other cannot be eliminated by the state, except by abolishing itself; for the state is based on this contradiction. It is based on the contradiction between public and private life, between universal and particular interests. For this reason, the state must confine itself to formal, negative activities, since the scope of its own power comes to an end at the very point where civil life and work begin. Indeed, when we consider the consequences arising from the asocial nature of civil life, of private property, of trade, of industry, of the mutual plundering that goes on between the various groups in civil life, it becomes clear that the law of nature governing the administration is impotence. For, the fragmentation, the depravity, and the slavery of civil society is the natural foundation of the modern state, just as the civil society of slavery was the natural foundation of the state in antiquity. The existence of the state is inseparable from the existence of slavery. The state and slavery in antiquity – frank and open classical antitheses – were not more closely welded together than the modern state and the cut-throat world of modern business – sanctimonious Christian antithesis. If the modern state desired to abolish the impotence of its administration, it would have to abolish contemporary private life. And to abolish private life, it would have to abolish itself, since it exists only as the antithesis of private life. However, no living person believes the defects of his existence to be based on the principle, the essential nature of his own life; they must instead be grounded in circumstances outside his own life. Suicide is contrary to nature. Hence, the state cannot believe in the intrinsic impotence of its administration – i.e., of itself. It can only perceive formal, contingent defects in it and try to remedy them. If these modification are inadequate, well, that just shows that social ills are natural imperfections, independent of man, they are a law of God, or else, the will of private individuals is too degenerate to meet the good intentions of the administration halfway. And how perverse individuals are! They grumble about the government when it places limits on freedom and yet demand that the government should prevent the inevitable consequences of that freedom!

    The more powerful a state and hence the more political a nation, the less inclined it is to explain the general principle governing social ills and to seek out their causes by looking at the principle of the state – i.e., at the actual organization of society of which the state is the active, self-conscious and official expression. Political understanding is just political understanding because its thought does not transcend the limits of politics. The sharper and livelier it is, the more incapable is it of comprehending social problems. The classical period of political understanding is the French Revolution. Far from identifying the principle of the state as the source of social ills, the heroes of the French Revolution held social ills to be the source of political problems. Thus Robespierre regarded great wealth and great poverty as an obstacle to pure democracy. He therefore wished to establish a universal system of Spartan frugality. The principle of politics is the will. The more one-sided – i.e., the more prefect – political understanding is, the more completely it puts its faith in the omnipotence of the will the blinder it is towards the natural and spiritual limitations of the will, the more incapable it becomes of discovering the real source of the evils of society. No further arguments are needed to prove that when the “Prussian" claims that “the political understanding” is destined “to uncover the roots of social want in Germany” he is indulging in vain illusions.
    http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx...1844/08/07.htm

    Its worth asking whether your analysis about how people select the lesser of two evils filters through the above. Whaddya think?

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Kid of the Black Hole View Post
    Hey Dhal, remember when Nikos posted an excerpt Mark wrote about the (Prussian) State?



    http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx...1844/08/07.htm


    Its worth asking whether your analysis about how people select the lesser of two evils filters through the above. Whaddya think?

    This is very key:
    The contradiction between the vocation and the good intentions of the administration on the one hand and the means and powers at its disposal on the other cannot be eliminated by the state, except by abolishing itself; for the state is based on this contradiction. It is based on the contradiction between public and private life, between universal and particular interests. For this reason, the state must confine itself to formal, negative activities, since the scope of its own power comes to an end at the very point where civil life and work begin.


    It is in the interests of the ruling class to have politics reduced to a series of "issues" the opposite sides of the various issues represented by the opponents in this or any election. And, of course, to almost all participants, at every level, this isn't some kind of scam or ruse, it is the totality of politics. That is why it is so frustrating when the same ground must gone over and over every four years with people who appeared to know better. I think that "indulging in vain illusions" appears to be the national pass time...
    "The present status of society is but the result of the struggle of humankind during this and preceding periods - yes, struggle! "You cannot reform society by the sprinkling of rose oil" said Mirabeau, and history proves the correctness of this statement. In no age did the rulers and despoilers of our race relinquish their hold upon the throat of their victims, unless forced to - by logic and argument? No...Blood, the precious sap was ever the price of liberty." August Spies, 1886

  14. #14
    Let me try this out on you Dhal, tell me if its too heavy.

    The State is the guarantor of civil society. It safeguards against all of the transgressions contained within civil society. But in safeguarding, the State comes to dictate civil society since all of those "transgressions" are equally a part of civil society.

    In becoming both the protector and the determiner of civil society, all the State actually functions as is a CIPHER to the inherent rift/contradiction that exists at the heart of civil society. Instead of standing apart from civil society, it is a mere reflection of its inner most divisions.

  15. #15
    The ruling class in a class society establishes the state to protect itself from all other classes in that society, and to insure the compliance of those other classes (as Anax once said, why would I work for you if you couldn't throw me in jail?). The State has to be the reflection of the very essence of the divisions in civil society, because that division is its only purpose for being. This comes round to the "withering away of the State" that is so famous. Without "the inherent rift/contradiction that exists at the heart of civil society" the State itself would be superfluous.
    "The present status of society is but the result of the struggle of humankind during this and preceding periods - yes, struggle! "You cannot reform society by the sprinkling of rose oil" said Mirabeau, and history proves the correctness of this statement. In no age did the rulers and despoilers of our race relinquish their hold upon the throat of their victims, unless forced to - by logic and argument? No...Blood, the precious sap was ever the price of liberty." August Spies, 1886

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