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Thread: Black Bourgeoisie Launches Orbital Mission to Pluto...

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  1. #1
    Senior Member anaxarchos's Avatar
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    Black Bourgeoisie Launches Orbital Mission to Pluto...

    Melissa Harris-Perry, nee Melissa Harris Lacewell... formerly Princeton professor (now Tulane)... bon vivant and TeeVee personality... MHP for short... starts a pissing contest with Liberal raconteur, David Sirota. It promises to be the greatest debate since the angels-on-the-head-of-a-pin medieval saga. But, before the first shot is lost... it is worth recounting.

    MHP claims that "white liberals" supported Clinton to the end and he was a foul dog. Obama is a foul dog too but no more so than Clinton. Ergo, white Liberals owe Obama the same loyalty or they are a bunch of fucking racists...

    I shit you not:

    http://www.thenation.com/article/163...andoning-obama

    Still, electoral racism cannot be reduced solely to its most egregious, explicit form. It has proved more enduring and baffling than these results can capture. The 2012 election may be a test of another form of electoral racism: the tendency of white liberals to hold African-American leaders to a higher standard than their white counterparts. If old-fashioned electoral racism is the absolute unwillingness to vote for a black candidate, then liberal electoral racism is the willingness to abandon a black candidate when he is just as competent as his white predecessors.

    The relevant comparison here is with the last Democratic president, Bill Clinton. Today many progressives complain that Obama’s healthcare reform was inadequate because it did not include a public option; but Clinton failed to pass any kind of meaningful healthcare reform whatsoever. Others argue that Obama has been slow to push for equal rights for gay Americans; but it was Clinton who established the “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy Obama helped repeal. Still others are angry about appalling unemployment rates for black Americans; but while overall unemployment was lower under Clinton, black unemployment was double that of whites during his term, as it is now. And, of course, Clinton supported and signed welfare “reform,” cutting off America’s neediest despite the nation’s economic growth.

    (snip)

    These comparisons are neither an attack on the Clinton administration nor an apology for the Obama administration. They are comparisons of two centrist Democratic presidents who faced hostile Republican majorities in the second half of their first terms, forcing a number of political compromises. One president is white. The other is black.

    (snip)

    The 2012 election is a test of whether Obama will be held to standards never before imposed on an incumbent. If he is, it may be possible to read that result as the triumph of a more subtle form of racism.

    (more)
    Seriously? We supported your foul dog so you liberals must support "ours"? Or else it is racism?

    Damn...

    Meanwhile, the Reverend Al Sharpton (RAS) interprets this as a new talking point and attempts to repeat it (well, it is a little complicated), and the "white liberals" rear up on their high horse and sputter.

    Thus, white guilt, racism as "attitude", and making up shit hit their highest expression - better even than Tea Party delirium tremens.

    Seriously?

    Bayard Fucking Rustin was better than this shit....

  2. #2
    Bayard Fucking Rustin

    I'd enjoy your typically succinct criticism of this man in his place and time. Not given to idle worship, pun intended, I haven't tended to lionize the guy. Yet still, where could I have come upon a critique but from the straight whitey? What say you?

  3. #3
    Note that she can't help but burp a little while choking her own shit down. Just a little belches back up.

    If he is, it may be possible to read that result as the triumph of a more subtle form of racism.
    Bet shes got a cabinet full of gas-x too

  4. #4
    I’ll be the “devil’s advocate” here. In Melissa Harris-Perry’s defense, she is just playing Democratic Party machine politics. Zionists endlessly utilize the exact same tactic, “If you get in the way, we’ll call you anti-Semitic.” Given how wimpy and spineless liberals are, they always quickly shut up -- not wanting anyone to even suggest that they might be “not nice.” So why blame her for name-calling when it is clearly so effective against liberals?

    I also read David Sirota’s response before posting this.
    Communist Party Discussion blog

    7-22: Never Forgive. Never Forget.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Comrade View Post
    I’ll be the “devil’s advocate” here. In Melissa Harris-Perry’s defense, she is just playing Democratic Party machine politics. Zionists endlessly utilize the exact same tactic, “If you get in the way, we’ll call you anti-Semitic.” Given how wimpy and spineless liberals are, they always quickly shut up -- not wanting anyone to even suggest that they might be “not nice.” So why blame her for name-calling when it is clearly so effective against liberals?

    I also read David Sirota’s response before posting this.
    She could be right about some of the asshole libs she is aiming this at and I wouldn't be surprised. Big deal. Wouldn't change a single line, paragraph not even a single comma in our analysis.

  6. #6
    American politics is "club politics" - at least internally. They all belong to the same club, they simply support this or that faction within the club. So if some tactic like calling supporters of faction "A" pretzel racists is effective within the context of club dominance, okay. But you are correct, her wringing of guilt from these issues makes zero impact on realistic analysis. It seems that the point is that as each election cycle goes bye, as the crisis deepens and becomes less and less understandable to supporters of the status quo, these kinds of weird non-analogs become more prevalent and less substantive.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhalgren View Post
    It seems that the point is that as each election cycle goes bye, as the crisis deepens and becomes less and less understandable to supporters of the status quo, these kinds of weird non-analogs become more prevalent and less substantive.
    They don't know how to analyze events objectively, so their "opinions", "beliefs", and "views" get more ridiculous by the day, as the crisis deepens.

    I think there's a psychological term for it, "cognitive dissonance" or something like that. Reality contradicts their opinions, yet those opinions are based on what was true for them-at least, in the past. So they come up with increasingly bizarre and contradictory ways of explaining why "things went wrong."

  8. #8
    Why ya think they call it the 'Senate'?










    'The glory that was Rome' is their aspiration.

    Patricians only need apply.

  9. #9
    Senior Member anaxarchos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Comrade View Post
    I’ll be the “devil’s advocate” here. In Melissa Harris-Perry’s defense, she is just playing Democratic Party machine politics. Zionists endlessly utilize the exact same tactic, “If you get in the way, we’ll call you anti-Semitic.” Given how wimpy and spineless liberals are, they always quickly shut up -- not wanting anyone to even suggest that they might be “not nice.” So why blame her for name-calling when it is clearly so effective against liberals?

    I also read David Sirota’s response before posting this.
    Ethnic politics in the Republican and Democratic parties in the U.S. has always been middle-class politics with, at best, perhaps a little street level graft and some little relief from the ethnic caste system.

    But black politics is not ethnic politics and never has been. The supreme role of slavery in American history, the unique role of "race" and its longevity, have pulled, time and time again, black politics to the "left".

    The riddle has never been hard to understand. Race, in America, is not an ethnic status but a socio-economic one. As such, it has always defied ethnic organization and displayed a political cohesiveness unknown to any other political population - thus the 90% of black voters who vote for Democratic candidates consistently, as an example.

    No matter what anyone may say on this subject, "race solidarity" always becomes a form of class solidarity because the black masses - by definition - are always largely proletarian.

    This was understood by many in the 2008 elections. If Obama was not an open sellout, then it was assumed that he was a partisan of the great masses of people... no matter how wishy-washy his rhetoric.

    MHP not only accepts that he was not such a partisan... she also makes claim for an ethnic loyalty which ignores the history of Black politics, turns its back on "the masses" and underlines her idea of racism as a prejudicial attitude rather than as an economic status which is routinely regurgitated alongside and by capitalism. Thus, as with any ethnic politics, she speaks for the "black hundreds" or the "black thousands" rather than for the millions.

    Whatever the impact on liberals may be - and that is entirely secondary - the demand for ethnic loyalty regardless of Obama's actual policy and loyalty... that is a complete misunderstanding of what black politics has come to mean, particularly since the 1960s.

    It is what Obama stands for that makes him a candidate for "racial" or class loyalty and not the other way around. The rest only counts fundamentally for a part of the black middle-class (or, the misnamed, "black bourgeoisie").

    If MHP doesn't get that, she can ask Alan Keyes or Herman Cain or Colin Powell or any one of a hundred others. What would have gotten them support, regardless of political affiliation or policy, as an Irish candidate or an Italian candidate or a Catholic candidate, works almost not at all as a "black candidate".

  10. #10
    This argument is to be seen elsewhere on the nets. It causes quite a few progressives to get flustered.

    It's one of the few bolts left in the Obama defender's quiver.

  11. #11
    I guess that "what a difference 18 years make" is not part of the argument's scope...

  12. #12
    Administrator meganmonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dhalgren View Post
    I guess that "what a difference 18 years make" is not part of the argument's scope...
    No, that's what is so dangerously effective about this tactic, the way it helps keep the collective memory so short and focused on the wrong things. We can't possibly learn over time that regardless of who is the President/party/leader they are all working for the ruling class and against the people. We have to look at things as distinct snippets and their 'meaning' comes from 'attitudes' and beliefs' rather than material conditions and reality.

    Gotta keep the people voting for the 2 parties and once again forgetting that it doesn't fucking work!

  13. #13
    Senior Member anaxarchos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PinkoCommie View Post
    Bayard Fucking Rustin

    I'd enjoy your typically succinct criticism of this man in his place and time. Not given to idle worship, pun intended, I haven't tended to lionize the guy. Yet still, where could I have come upon a critique but from the straight whitey? What say you?
    It would be hard for me to name a more consistent red-baiter than Bayard Rustin. It would be hard to find a more dedicated Union splitter on the issue of "reds" than Bayard Rustin. It would be tough to find a heavier anchor on militancy in the later years of the movement than Bayard Rustin. There were few more consistent supporters of Civil Rights AND Imperialism than Bayard Rustin.

    The Movement in all of its iterations generally recognized that equality implied both economic transformation and opposition to colonialism (including King and people to the right of King). Not Rustin. He supported, not just integration, but integration into the U.S. as it stood. He promoted, not just labor, but the most reactionary anti-communist pro-imperialist form of "labor". He is thus an ideological parent of the current "Obama" club.

    To be truthful, Randolph had very serious issues too, but he was a complicated guy. Not Rustin. He was a dedicated partisan of reform-Imperialism, from WW2 to the end, and he was always ready to attack "militancy" in all its forms.

    In my time, not even the two Whitneys were more mistrusted than him.

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