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Thread: The battles that must be won

  1. #1

    The battles that must be won

    If the nation is to reach a qualitatively more democratic stage of development some critical battles must be won.

    Everyone who has been paying attention knows that the 2012 election will determine the direction of society and individual lives for some time to come. It will be a mighty confrontation and the outcome of which will shape the survival prospects of tens of millions of working and middle-class people.

    The current debate around the budget - is it a spending problem or a revenue problem - is really a debate around drastically cutting social services or increasing the taxes on the rich.

    This is the current manifestation of a sharpening class struggle that the capitalist class and their political surrogates on the extreme right started.

    On Election Day, however, voters from all backgrounds but particularly working and middle class voters, racial minorities, women, youth and senior voters can have the last say in this battle.

    By defeating the Republican extreme right, a powerful and historic blow for a more democratic and just society can be landed.

    As the debate rages on, understanding the strategic importance of defeating the extreme right does not mean that the people totally agree with President Obama and the Democrats.

    The great bulk of everyday working people, a majority of whom have been negatively effected by the economic crisis and the attacks on public unions and public services, understand this is a basic way out of the crisis.

    It is a battle that must be won.

    Indeed, the action of labor and its allies in Wisconsin, which has sparked a nation wide upsurge of militant action in defense of pubic sector workers, shows that millions of working people understand what is at stake.

    They understand that defending and building a strong and growing U.S. trade union movement is strategic. Seen as part of a broad social movement of everyday working people it can bring a more democratic and just society.

    This too is a battle that must be won.

    High on the list of battles that must be won is the fight against structural racism and all forms of anti-immigrant bigotry. Every anti-working class, anti-immigrant and anti-people program that's pushed by the right has a strong racist content: their white supremacy is rooted in an ideology that puts profits before people.

    In this economic crisis it's becoming clearer to millions of white working people and trade unionists that racism isn't just a bad thing, it hurts all working people.

    Having an African American president facing reelection who stands with labor on many vital issues helps tens of millions of understand that the fight against racism is central to the fight for jobs and a more democratic and just nation.

    When racism goes unchallenged the unity of action of the multi racial working class suffers, mass class consciousness lags, and with it the confidence needed to win the overall battle.

    Therefore defeating racism is also a battle that must be won.

    The fight for peace and disarmament is also critical - in particular, the withdrawal of U.S. troops from Iraq and Afghanistan. These too are battles that must be won.

    U.S. wars of aggression around the world are driven by the drive of global capitalists for maximum profits and power.

    Imperialist wars prevent the building of a more democratic and just society here at home.

    It costs lives (both U.S. and others) and builds hatred between our nation and peoples around the world. As a result it promotes more war and conflict.

    Meanwhile the waste of trillions of national treasury dollars negates any effort to end poverty, hunger and homelessness at home and worldwide.

    It means that generations of working-class children, especially children of color, will never have quality schools or a decent place to live. It means millions of the elderly will be deprived of a decent retirement.

    War is always a catastrophe. It legalizes murder and genocide. Ending the wars, bringing the troops home, promoting nuclear disarmament, peace and cooperation and transferring military spending to human needs is a battle that must be won.

    The same goes for the fight for women's equality and LGBT rights.

    Can the U.S. be a just and more democratic society without ending the mass incarceration of millions of blacks and Latinos who receive preferential treatment when it comes to being convicted and incarcerated by the courts?

    Can the nation and world survive without ending global warming, along with air and water pollution?

    These are battles that must be won.

    Defeating the right in the next election is vital to winning all these battles and more.

    If the political majority currently ruling the U.S. House of Representatives today takes over all three branches of the federal government again, all the battles that must be won will be that much more delayed.

    We say that they must be won and they can be won but only through organized democratic and united struggle. The coming election requires all democratic and progressive forces to unite and roll up their sleeves and get real busy.

    Things can get a lot better or a lot worse. If anyone thinks U.S. capitalism is going to stay the same forever they've got another thing coming. As Marx once said, the only constant in this world is change.

    The battles that must be won, can be won. A great change indeed is coming.






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  2. #2
    Izzat you, Sam Webb?
    Damn near word for word...

  3. #3
    How do you help put an end to imperialistic wars by voting for the imperialist warmongers? How do you defend the "trade union movement" in the US by backing the Party that is destroying the unions in Massachusetts? "Defeating the right" in this country means defeating the Democrats, too. This is silly bullshit...

  4. #4
    Battles but not class struggle?

    The history of all hitherto existing society is the history of class struggles.

    Communist Manifesto


    These arent the battles of the proletariat and the working class neither the workers should choose between the "right" wing, the "centre" and the "left" wing of bourgeoise, in other words to choose who will be their master for the next 4-5 years. Working classes have their own party, the Communist Party. And the strength of the Communst Party lies to its members and to the people who are willing to fight opportunism and defeatism. The european experience has shown beyond any doubt that you cant fight a class warfare effectively without first crushing opportunism outside and (most importantly) inside the Party.

  5. #5
    Senior Member anaxarchos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikos View Post
    Battles but not class struggle?

    The history of all hitherto existing society is the history of class struggles.

    Communist Manifesto

    These arent the battles of the proletariat and the working class neither the workers should choose between the "right" wing, the "centre" and the "left" wing of bourgeoise, in other words to choose who will be their master for the next 4-5 years. Working classes have their own party, the Communist Party. And the strength of the Communst Party lies to its members and to the people who are willing to fight opportunism and defeatism. The european experience has shown beyond any doubt that you cant fight a class warfare effectively without first crushing opportunism outside and (most importantly) inside the Party.
    Also from The Manifesto:

    In short, the Communists everywhere support every revolutionary movement against the existing social and political order of things.

    In all these movements, they bring to the front, as the leading question in each, the property question, no matter what its degree of development at the time.

    Finally, they labour everywhere for the union and agreement of the democratic parties of all countries.

    The Communists disdain to conceal their views and aims.

    They openly declare that their ends can be attained only by the forcible overthrow of all existing social conditions. Let the ruling classes tremble at a Communistic revolution.

    The proletarians have nothing to lose but their chains.

    They have a world to win.

    Workers of All Countries, Unite!

  6. #6
    The ruling classes hear those chains rattling and it scares them to death. That's why we keep seeing these articles begging working class folks to vote for the Democrats - 'Please stay involved!' 'Please support something that is recognizably capitalist!' The working class is turning its back on the Democrats and the whole hopeless mess...won't get fooled again...

  7. #7
    Yes, stay involved means vote for us. Fight imperialism, but not capitalism. Create a capitalism without imperialism as if imperialism can be abolished if you vote for the "right people". Lassallism or "Bernstainism" at its best. This is not going to be an another '29 for the working class. This time we will win, guys.

  8. #8
    This time we will win, guys
    What choice have we? Given the environmental situation 'barbarism' take on additional meaning.

    Say Nikos, are you KKE?

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Nikos View Post
    Yes, stay involved means vote for us. Fight imperialism, but not capitalism. Create a capitalism without imperialism as if imperialism can be abolished if you vote for the "right people". Lassallism or "Bernstainism" at its best. This is not going to be an another '29 for the working class. This time we will win, guys.
    Hey Nikos, when Marx raises the "degree of development of the property question" is he referring to the develop of property (ie presently as capital) or is he referring to the advances made in how the question is put to society?

    Its subtle but not necessarily the same thing.

  10. #10
    Hey blindpig. Yes, I am KKE.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid of the Black Hole View Post
    Hey Nikos, when Marx raises the "degree of development of the property question" is he referring to the develop of property (ie presently as capital) or is he referring to the advances made in how the question is put to society?

    Its subtle but not necessarily the same thing.
    Hey Kid of the Black Hole. I think that the Greek translation of this passage is more clear on this issue. It goes more or less like this: The movements bring forward the property question in every way/form it takes, advanced or less advanced, as the basic question of these movements.
    I hope my english make some sense
    So, i think that Marx and Engels tried to describe the current situation of their time and the progress of those movements. I dont think that they intended to use the notion of property as a synonym to the notion of Capital because its not the same thing. So my opinion is that your second assumption is closer to the truth. But we certainly need to check the original german text.

  11. #11
    Senior Member anaxarchos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikos View Post
    Hey blindpig. Yes, I am KKE.



    Hey Kid of the Black Hole. I think that the Greek translation of this passage is more clear on this issue. It goes more or less like this: The movements bring forward the property question in every way/form it takes, advanced or less advanced, as the basic question of these movements.
    I hope my english make some sense
    So, i think that Marx and Engels tried to describe the current situation of their time and the progress of those movements. I dont think that they intended to use the notion of property as a synonym to the notion of Capital because its not the same thing. So my opinion is that your second assumption is closer to the truth. But we certainly need to check the original german text.
    This is the original German text (closer to the Greek, I think - "more or less developed form"):

    "In allen diesen Bewegungen heben sie die Eigenthumsfrage, welche mehr oder minder entwickelte Form sie auch angenommen haben möge, als die Grundfrage der Bewegung hervor."

    He is discussing the property question as a political issue. Earlier in the section, he discusses practical alliances derived from the actual development of property in various countries.

    Mit einem Wort, die Kommunisten unterstützen überall jede revolutionäre Bewegung gegen die bestehenden gesellschaftlichen und politischen Zustände.

    In allen diesen Bewegungen heben sie die Eigenthumsfrage, welche mehr oder minder entwickelte Form sie auch angenommen haben möge, als die Grundfrage der Bewegung hervor.

    Die Kommunisten arbeiten endlich überall an der Verbindung und Verständigung der demokratischen Parteien aller Länder.

    Die Kommunisten verschmähen es, ihre Ansichten und Absichten zu verheimlichen.

    Sie erklären es offen, daß ihre Zwecke nur erreicht werden können durch den gewaltsamen Umsturz aller bisherigen Gesellschaftsordnung. Mögen die herrschenden Klassen vor einer Kommunistischen Revolution zittern.

    Die Proletarier haben nichts in ihr zu verlieren als ihre Ketten.

    Sie haben eine Welt zu gewinnen.

    Proletarier aller Länder vereinigt Euch!

  12. #12

    Right on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nikos View Post
    Yes, stay involved means vote for us. Fight imperialism, but not capitalism. Create a capitalism without imperialism as if imperialism can be abolished if you vote for the "right people". Lassallism or "Bernstainism" at its best. This is not going to be an another '29 for the working class. This time we will win, guys.
    Thank you for being here and sharing the Real Battles that are ongoing, brother.

    I stopped reading the OP at "By defeating the Republican extreme right, a powerful and historic blow for a more democratic and just society can be landed."

    Silly bullshit indeed.

    I declined to join the "communist" party several years ago.

    CINO - communist in name only.

    Finally, that acronym "in name only" has come to really fit something accurately -

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxarchos View Post
    This is the original German text (closer to the Greek, I think):

    "In allen diesen Bewegungen heben sie die Eigenthumsfrage, welche mehr oder minder entwickelte Form sie auch angenommen haben möge, als die Grundfrage der Bewegung hervor."
    Thank you Anaxarchos.
    oder minder entwickelte Form I think it is safer now to chose the second explanation.

  14. #14
    He is discussing the property question as a political issue. Earlier in the section, he discusses practical alliances derived from the actual development of property in various countries.
    this is what I wanted to get at

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by PinkoCommie View Post
    Thank you for being here and sharing the Real Battles that are ongoing, brother.

    I stopped reading the OP at "By defeating the Republican extreme right, a powerful and historic blow for a more democratic and just society can be landed."

    Silly bullshit indeed.

    I declined to join the "communist" party several years ago.

    CINO - communist in name only.

    Finally, that acronym "in name only" has come to really fit something accurately -

    Well, you just described 90% of the communist parties in europe. But you cant stop history. I believe that the historical situations will create all the opportunites for a rejuvenation of the communist movement in conjuction with the genuine communist political and ideological activity.
    I know about the US only from the TV (as most of the europeans do). But i have no doubt that there are many people like you guys who will contribute hugely to the rejuvenation of the communist movement in the USA.

  16. #16
    Senior Member anaxarchos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikos View Post
    Well, you just described 90% of the communist parties in europe. But you cant stop history. I believe that the historical situations will create all the opportunities for a rejuvenation of the communist movement in conjunction with the genuine communist political and ideological activity.

    I know about the US only from the TV (as most of the europeans do). But i have no doubt that there are many people like you guys who will contribute hugely to the rejuvenation of the communist movement in the USA.
    This too shall pass...

    The movement is being rejuvenated everyday... and in the streets: in Spain, in Italy, in France, in Portugal... even in Egypt.

    Besides, there is no room for communists to become opportunists. The Socialists, Social Democrats and Democrats have a monopoly on that. There are no vacancies left.

    Hell, for families like the Papandreous, it is a family business which has already spanned three generations.

  17. #17
    Senior Member anaxarchos's Avatar
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    All of the "must win issues"...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dhalgren View Post
    How do you help put an end to imperialistic wars by voting for the imperialist warmongers? How do you defend the "trade union movement" in the US by backing the Party that is destroying the unions in Massachusetts? "Defeating the right" in this country means defeating the Democrats, too. This is silly bullshit...
    It is a very odd example of cognitive dissonance that the article lists as objectives which "must be won", those very same issues on which the Democrats have demonstrated no loyalty to working class objectives whatsoever: Imperialism and war, austerity, union rights, racism...

    It would be far closer to reality to argue that these are "battles which will not be impacted in any way by supporting the Democrats."

    There is a very strange dichotomy here. On the one hand, the practical exhortations suggest a theoretical under-layer which cannot be fully articulated. On the other hand, the theoretical discussion rejects any such possibility.

    This is a dead loser comin' and goin'...

  18. #18
    Everyone who has been watching CNN and Fox News believes that the 2012 election will determine the direction of society and individual lives for some time to come. It will be a multi-billion dollar confrontation and the outcome of which will be further attacks on tens of millions of working class people.
    Fixed.
    Communist Party Discussion blog

    7-22: Never Forgive. Never Forget.

  19. #19
    Is the person who posted this willing to engage or was this just flown in from the land of confusion and dropped onto our heads?

    A counterpoint to this is pretty easily done, and some here have taken the lead on this, but it seems fruitless if the original poster has slipped away.

    I do give the OP credit though for alluding to the fact that Obama is a right-wing yes-man, just not an "extreme" right winger. Maybe I just read it that way, heh.

    So let's head off to the ephemeral electoral battle with our new rallying cry, "We're Right! Just Not Extreme!" or something like that.

    Shit man, this stuff is a rallying cry to insanity.
    "It is not the consciousness of men that determines their existence, but their social existence that determines their consciousness."

    -Karl Marx's 1859 Preface to the Contribution to the Critique of Political Economy

  20. #20
    Hey Chlams, the way it works is that it came in on one of the news feeds. If anyone responds to that the thread is automatically moved to one of the 'upper' forums.

    Automation my man, we can't escape it.

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