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Thread: Today’s Coverup of Surveillance Crimes and Barack Obama

  1. #21

    The bill did change.

    How much I am not sure. But it changed enough so many more people voted for it this time.

    Does that make him a liar?

    I don't know what his objections were the first time. He clearly did not like the immunity provisions either time. But personally, I think the civil immunity is overplayed. I am a civil lawyer and what we are concerned with is obtaining monetary damages. That is how we get paid, especially if the case is taken on contingency. I don't know how much money one can expect a jury to award for being wiretapped. What is the financial harm? Did you lose a job? Did you lose any income? Did you incur any medical expense? And the rule on punitive damages is clear -- no actual damages, no punitive ones either. Been there done that with an inmate once.

    The fact that Lehey and other senators wanted the private lawyers to finance these cases and get information from the government and get the government on record rather than have government lawyers do it at government expense did not sit well with me. He really didn't seem to care if the telecoms were found liable and had to pay the spied upon people. He just wanted information. Kinda pissed me off. He's got subpoena power. If he wants to know something, let him subpoena the person. Of course these guys are too damn spineless to hold someone in contempt if the person refuses to come testify or refuses to answer.

    Just my .02$.

  2. #22

    Except amending the constitution is difficult.

    We somehow seldom seem to ever get enough votes. Remember the ERA? Damn good simple, clear amendment. Couldn't get enough states to pass it. So my wife and daughters technically do not have the same rights as I do.

  3. #23

    Yes

    The cement is everywhere.

  4. #24

    It's going to take me a while to digest everything in this thread

    The OP was the easy part, everyone's replies are a different story. What a refreshing change.

  5. #25

    I'm sure, David, that they didn't include verbal communications because (a) it would have been hard

    to phrase it; (b) what people did by letter then they do by email and phone today - technology does not set aside our rights; and (c) the BOR does not define the limits of our rights (see the 9th), it only highlights some of the more important restrictions on government power.

  6. #26

    Go back and read the original documents, David. Quartering was a money and inhibition issue

    It cost the Crown money to quarter and feed soldiers. If they could force the people to do it, so much the better. And having soldiers in the house would be like having cops living in your house today - a big dampener on you getting uppity.

    Your practice must not involve ANY civil-rights work!

  7. #27

    Obama is as spineless as any of them

    and shows it every day. But that aside, is there any stand, act or policy endorsement that Obama could make that would make you criticize him? Is he above criticism? I was just wondering, because weren't you opposed to Bush's illegal spying? Didn't you think that the telecoms were breaking the law and infringing on people's rights? But now, because Obama says he is in favor this kind of government behavior, it is suddenly all right. Or were you a supporter of Bush's illegal spying from the beginning?

    :evilgrin:
    "The present status of society is but the result of the struggle of humankind during this and preceding periods - yes, struggle! "You cannot reform society by the sprinkling of rose oil" said Mirabeau, and history proves the correctness of this statement. In no age did the rulers and despoilers of our race relinquish their hold upon the throat of their victims, unless forced to - by logic and argument? No...Blood, the precious sap was ever the price of liberty." August Spies, 1886

  8. #28

    I agree it was a money issue

    But as you say it would be like cops in your house, except worse. Soldiers are military and cops are supposedly civilian. But either one would be the epitome of invasion of privacy.

    I am not a civil rights lawyer (I do PI). But sometimes I think civil rights lawyers don't think.

    Why are the lessons of the third amendment forgotten? Why should they be?

  9. #29

    Agree to b and c

    but not a.

    The problem with verbal communications is that they can be heard by persons at whom they are not directed. If a policeman just happens by coincidence to be in the right place to hear a plot, then he has the right to arrest. I think the framers wanted the police to have that right.

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