View Full Version : Any Thoughts On Why the Dims Don't Push for Single Payer More Aggressively?
02-26-2009, 07:31 PM
Is it solely their contributions from the 'health' insurance industry? I was thinking recently how Bush's entire agenda (particularly through most of his second term) was incredibly unpopular, yet not much seemed to dissuade him from doing what the corporatocracy and his wealthy backers desired. The Democrats, though, won't push for something that Americans have polled in favor of (for at least a decade I think).
p.s. I do think that one strategy the Democrats use, is leaving some powder in their rifle. They intentionally drag their feet, instead of moving forward with popular legislation, as long as they can lead the public along thinking they will eventually do what the people want.
02-26-2009, 07:47 PM
They are not going to legislate away the insurance industry. What industry wants is mandatory insurance and that is very scary.
02-26-2009, 07:54 PM
to use their Demness as a kind of performance to get votes, stay in office, and defend terrible policies while offering as little resistance to their "campaign contributors" as possible.
Look at Barney Frank. He's got his own personal cheer squad over yonder to keep us focused on Barney's latest "smackdown" of Bill O'Reilly (is he a permanent guest on that show or what?) but who fall strangely silent when gets up to lend his heroic voice to yet another bailout. Ditto Feinstein, another "voice of the left" whose brave challenges to the powers that be, like Obama's stimulus -- probably the last remotely "Democratic" legislation he'll ever sponsor -- we're regularly reminded of. And so on.
So, while there are many good people in Congress and the WH, and many who probably started with the best of intentions, to survive, they pretty much have to hollow out their Dem rhetoric and turn it into a kind of costume they put on when the cameras are rolling, like a t-shirt that they only wear at demonstrations.
Sad, isn't it?
02-26-2009, 07:56 PM
Ok, so you believe the major reason is the contributions that the Dims get from the 'health' insurance industry? It probably is all very straightforward, I was just wondering if I'm missing something that might be right in front of my face (and maybe someone could point out to me, what it is, precisely, that I'm missing).
02-26-2009, 07:59 PM
Thank you Lupercalio,
This is the kind of insight I was looking for, I'll have to meditate on what it is that you're saying, and get back to you as soon as I can.
02-26-2009, 08:04 PM
I thought that, but then i figured montag would figure it out if he used his brain.
if ya havnt, (montag)
ya GOTTA READ SHOCK DOCTRINE - it ssssssssssplians everything -
the corproate scam ispervasive, the big cartels have lobbied for
permanent bilking contracts for business lines created out of bubbles,
and so every fraudster has learned how to become a speculator,
and the bottom end reality of the zero sum friedman neoliberalism
is mass disenfranchisement and poverty of a permanent underclass.
02-26-2009, 08:16 PM
Hillary's health plan was mandatory insurance which some said was unconstitutional.
We just saw the health care industry get a 61 cent tax "for the children" and government got to help the smokers quit too, because they really care.
I cannot imagine the Dims getting together and saying "Okay, how much powder do we have to keep dry."
Do you think mandate vaccines are to protect the children or for the profit of the pill industry that got Congress to take liability for the shots, whose fund collected 75 cents for every shot and was looted by Bush about a year ago, and stays solvent by being corrupt and denying claims pretty much routinely.
The word that goes with medicine in this country is money. Science has little to do with it. It goes back to the early days of Rockefeller medicine when industry said "We need something to market."
Rockefeller medicine owns the medical schools, the medical association, and Congress and the messages of the media too.
Cannabis is not medicine, but Merck has a patent from 2003 for cannabinoids. We already know Sativex will come to America in 2011 after the patent for Marinol expires which was handed over to Unimed after government research found an expensive manmade way to make THC that could be had in a plant for almost nothing. Patent = http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/6630507.html
02-26-2009, 08:19 PM
Politicians are professional performers, and the higher up they get, the better they are, so it can be pretty difficult to believe these dedicated, hard-working, God-fearing civil servants would actually sell us down the river for a couple of hundred lousy bucks, but it appears to be so.
02-26-2009, 08:27 PM
Will the domino theory hold true?
02-26-2009, 08:39 PM
the same thing. The answer to your question is that the insurance industry is more powerful than God.
Furthermore, what makes you think that our representatives (so-called) really give a rat's-ass what the people want? It's all about money. Our system is irredeemably corrupt and until we get the money out of the system i.e. publically funded elections and some form of instant runoff voting so that third parties have a chance nothing is going to change.
If any congressperson did start to make serious inroads into creating a single payer system, the insurance industry would pour a gazillion dollars into another "Harry & Louise" campaign that would poison the well against any reasoned discussion of single payer healthcare.
I can think of only two people in either House who hold their positions out of a desire for public service: Rep. Dennis Kucinich and Sen. Ted Kennedy, and I don't know how much longer Senator Kennedy is going to be with us. We are screwed.
02-26-2009, 08:42 PM
It is not even considered. The insurance industry has a grip. Kucinich like plans that call for removing the cost of insurance and profit are not any where near possible. That is why I said "Are you serious?"
Kucinich's words are "Single payer health care" meaning no insurance. Hitlery wanted "Universal health Insurance" like in MA where people my age would be paying about $9000 a year.
02-26-2009, 08:49 PM
Watching Obama carefully weighhis words to see just how many repuke talking points he can slip into his speeches before the cheering stops is kind of horrifying, but after Tuesday's lollapalooza, that appears to be what's happening. He got his stimulus passed, so he earned his Dem chops, and now the can move on to the stealth Reagan agenda he appears to have been tasked with carrying out.
02-26-2009, 09:27 PM
Beginning of the End: US Attorney General Says Ending DEA Raids 'Now American Policy' (VIDEOS)- http://www.salem-news.com/articles/february262009/no_more_dea_2-25-09.php
Michael Phelps has revenge on Kellogg’s = http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/people,2019,stoner-michael-phelps-has-revenge-on-kelloggs-dopes,75234
There was never talk of the liklihood of it passing. It will be hard fought and many think Arnold would veto it even though he was a pot smoker that said "Marijuana is not a drug."
The big thing is the Rick Simpson Tour that starts with one foot in the Pacific Ocean on May 2nd. It will bring the testimonials forward and make people wonder why the government held back the cure for cancer that could be grown in their back yard just like Rick Simpson did for himself and others.
It is strange how people can watch Run From the Cure and believe it and disbelieve it at the same time. I asked Marc Paquette about why there are not testimonials and yesterday he gave an answer:
Rick Simpson's oil and other similar cannabis oils made from different cannabis strains and varieties have similar and different medicinal qualities.
Some oils treat severe arthritis (and tendinitis), totally shrink inflammation and pain, and stop bone degeneration.
I witness it a few days ago..again! biggrin.gif
Doctors who find out about it and witness it can't cease to be in a state of positive shock and amazed! biggrin.gif
It's these types of cheap and non toxic medicines that our governments prohibit and keep away from us, so obviously, there is conspiracy in mind.
Everyone is so blinded by the announcement that the DEA raids will end, they think Obemem is Mr. Change. But it sets the stage for the cannabis oils to become mainstream and for people to come forward with testimonials. I am hoping someone at Medpot can make some coconut oil infusions and fix some cuts and burns while we are waiting for the testimonials. The problem with Canada is there are only 2600 exemptees and anyone that sticks their head out is taking a chance.
California NORML had Zogby do a poll the last few days of January that had 44% for legalization 52% against and 4% undecided. Now we have this graph and there is a need to get to the majority position where people might wonder just what is it that makes them in a minority all of a sudden. That is what the "Rethink" was about, a call to campaign for the majority.
I have been critical of NORML and MPP both since 2002 for not taking full legalization to California until it is over. It was unbelievable that they would not even mention the full legalization initiative supported by Jack Herer this last time that never did make it. California was always credited for doing things first and it is still have a chance to be first in legalization.
Legalization is inevitable and the honor is for California to take, but the big thing out there is the Rick Simpson Tour starting May 2nd. There was a man with a grandson with brain cancer who was flown to Spain not too long after their 2000 research affirmed the old research from the 1974 research from the University of Virginia at Richmond. He had a secrecy agreement but his grandson made it. That is why there are words to a song around here "Inject cannabis in my brain." Hemp oil can cure cancer. It is about to bust open. Just wait 9 weeks.
02-26-2009, 09:35 PM
That is an interesting analogy, politicians as actors. Rather than people who strongly believe in things (and want to do right by their constituents), they are simply players on a stage attempting to fill a role (and hoping to get renewed for another season, lol).
p.s. I'm consistenly amazed by what many politicians don't seem to know. At one point I thought that politicians were mainly political junkies who decided to run for office; but probably closer to the truth is that they are attention, and power seekers without a strong ideological backbone. Their main interest is to keep the attention on them, and keep a hold on their power, rather than trying to accomplish things that benefit the majority of the people.
02-26-2009, 09:43 PM
I once kinda liked Kennedy. I believe he is a free trader, and a unyielding supporter of Israel however. My former fondness for him has soured considerably.
On the campaign finance issue, if I had a magic wand of what to change in DC, I think that would be it. Obama has never once mentioned anything about this since inauguration day (I don't remember in his campaign him having much to say about it either, except for the obligatory sloganeering against special interests, which even the Rethugs do which is either laughable or incredibly sad/depressing, maybe both). Maybe the question I should have asked (instead of about health care) is how to get campaign finance reform, when we have a situation akin to the fox guarding the hen house. The trough has been too kind to the Dims and the Rethugs, and we're supposed to get 'reform' and 'change' from these people! Egads!
02-26-2009, 09:56 PM
All you have to do is win one for the team.
02-27-2009, 02:12 PM
Sorry, but I'm excluding people like Conyers and Kucinich, who have been relegated to the sidelines more than quite a few times.
Who exactly favors single-payer? I have to agree with Virgil: Democrats are far too beholden to the Nixonian corporate insurance scheme to seriously consider actually considering single-payer. Obama has said repeatedly that single-payer is not the way to go. Even the popularly-believed-to-be-left-leaning Howard Dean wants to keep things the way they are.
I think enaction of single-payer will only come from a grassroots movement. Of course, with the Titanic going down, Dems will jump ship and act like they favored it all along.
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