Going 15 Rounds with Seymour Hersh

[leftchick]

http://www.counterpunch.org/ali01152008.html

On the Iraq War, Bush Foreign Policy, Private Contractors and the Prospects of War with Iran

Going 15 Rounds with Seymour Hersh
By WAJAHAT ALI

"I'm having a horrible day," grumbled Seymour Hersh, the 70 year-old Pulitzer Prize winning investigative journalist, arguably the most revered of his time, and reporter for the prestigious New Yorker magazine.

Almost a week before, I called Seymour Hersh on a lark trying to score an interview regarding his New Yorker article "Shifting Targets: The Administration's plan for Iran," an explosive piece outlining the Bush Administration's strategic and aggressive preparation for a potential attack on Iran. When Hersh writes, everyone reads, and the world pays attention.

Even The White House, through press secretary Dana Perino, was forced to respond to his article, publicly stating, "[The White House] is not going to comment on any possible scenario that an anonymous source continues to feed into Sy HershWe don't discuss such thingsWe are pursuing a diplomatic solution in Iran."

<snip>

"Ok, a sample question. Suppose we did this interview, what would a sample question sound like? Hit me with a sample question. Go!" commanded Hersh.

The bell rings. The Heavyweight advances, and now you're on your toes for Round 1.

ALI: (Slightly flustered and caught off guard) Ok, I have one. Here's a sample. Recently at the Democratic debate, Senator Mike Gravel called out Hillary Clinton for voting on Senator Lieberman's aggressive resolution against Iran that condemned Iran's Revolutionary Guard as a terrorist group. What I want to ask is, should we expect anything different from the Democrats if they are elected in regards to U.S. foreign policy, specifically in regards to Iraq? Iran?

HERSH: I have no idea. I would certainly hope so. How would I possible know? I don't see them doing anything different with Iraq, despite concede it. Just concede it * I don't know what else they can do that is different. And who says they're going to win? I don't see that they are going to win. I'm not sure they are, and I don't know why people think that. They haven't done anything different. They haven't brought anything new to the table that hasn't already been said by the Republicans. They just talk the talk. They talk the talk. If I knew this * I mean, who would win (the presidential race), I'd be at the race track everyday. Not reporting. You just don't know. No one knows. Listen, this is politics, and I'm just a guy who writes * who writes stories about the war. When people ask me about politics it drives me crazy! I'm not a fan of politics. I don't like discussing politics. You can't make me something I'm not.

ALI: I understand. Trust me, trust me, I'm not trying to. But, there you go, that would be an example of a sample question if we did an interview *

HERSH: What!? We are doing an interview! What the fuck were you doing?! This is the interview! Get out your recorder, let's go. Let's go."

ALI: Ok, great, let's do it. Private contractors in Iraq, specifically Blackwater, have been on the news nonstop for the past few months regarding numerous allegations of reckless shooting and violence. What's your take on this?

HERSH: Oh, there's been a lot of wrongdoing by them. A lot of arrogance. [Blackwater] drive around like they own the world over there. They increase a lot of resentment amongst the Iraqi civilian population against us [The U.S.] by behaving like this. Listen, if you're an occupier then you act like an occupier. Occupiers act like occupiers. There is no way that Iraqi people will ever respond in any positive way to what Blackwater does.

<snip>

ALI: Over the past couple of years, it's become fashionable and clichéd amongst certain circles to compare our involvement in Iraq to the Vietnam War. Now, you've been there, you were there reporting on Vietnam, breaking the My Lai massacre story back then. And here you are now with Iraq. As a person who has actually lived through it and reported on both, are there any similarities, or is it premature to compare?

HERSH: One thing is similar. We are out there fighting in a country with uneducated, 18 year old boys with weapons. They're frightened - frightened. They're frightened because they don't know the country, they don't know the culture. They're not even interested in knowing about the culture. Fear is there. [The U.S. soldiers] never see an enemy sometimes, and weeks go by. And they continue to lose fellow soldiers, they lose them to snipers, they lose them to mines, and eventually and inevitably, they take the war to the people they can see. And in Iraq, that's the local population. Happens in all wars. All of 'em. Civilians are the ones treated differently.

Vietnam was always a tactical mistake. We lose the war, we are driven off in '75, and in four to five years we are back in that country playing Monopoly with Vietnam's economy. You know, making investments, several investments in that country. That is not 'gonna happen here. We are in a strategic debate with about 1.3, what, 1.5 billion Muslims -

<snip>

ALI: So there's this rise of Anti-Americanism unfortunately around that region. In your research, have you found the main cause of hatred against America?

HERSH: American violence. It's the violence. Do we know * I mean, how many bombs are dropped? How many shells are fired? Who knows what the accurate number is? I know I don't. There was, last year I think, I believe there was a number reported in the "The Lancet" that said the Iraqi causalities numbered in 600,000 killed [The Lancet medical journal reporting published in October '06 estimated 654,965 excess deaths related to the war, or 2.5% of the population]. That number is breathtakingit's breathtaking. I believe, however, the numbers and causalities are actually much greater than have been reported.

Every family in Iraq knows someone who has been killed. Americans are invariably blamed. We are going to have serious situations resulting from that. This is a society [Iraq] that does deal with revenge. We probably created a lot of new jihadists and martyrs and anger, anger with how we behaved and the resulting casualties that are innocent Iraqis.

ALI: On the ground in Iraq, what specifically causes the blowback against our troops, what causes the violence?

HERSH: Americans are frightened. They are frightened in Iraq. Not frightened in, you know, a cowardly way. But frightened like anyone * I mean, it's natural to be like that, anyone would. You're a solider in Iraq, you're now manning a checkpoint there. You don't know the language, you don't know Arabic. You don't know their culture. Now, [the Iraqis] arrive at the checkpoints. They miss the checkpoints. You yell at them to stop, but they don't understand you, they don't speak the language, so they keep driving. They don't stop. You open fire. And now you've made enemies. We are occupiers right now.

ALI: I want to get back to the Sunni-Shia comment you made. As you know, America has history in that region, specifically the Iran-Iraq war of the 1980's. We know that the U.S., through then Vice President Bush, was heavily involved, trying to bleed both sides against the middle, weakening the Shia theocracy of Iran and hedging bets for the Sunni regime of Saddam. So, now, is it going to be good 'ol "divide and conquer" with the sectarian situation? How will U.S. forces and policy play with the Sunni-Shia dynamic in the Muslim world?

HERSH: Brother versus brother. It's going to be brother versus brother. Sunni versus Shia. There's an incredible sectarian war happening right now in Iraq. Things are always tense between both groups there. We know Saddam mistreated the Shia when he was in power. But, it was nothing then like it is now. The killing now is unbelievable.

The new policy of America is that we are going to work with Israelis and moderate Sunnis, those include Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia. We're going to join forces with Western forces in Europe. Then, America and Israel are going to go after people we don't like. People like Iran, Hamas, Hizbollah. There is a coalition forming, a coalition that forms and pits brother against brother, a fitnah. You know that's not an exact meaning of the word, it's an Arabic word. But it's fitnah [dissention, disunity]. And we have strange bedfellows working with us * Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia - all are going to be used to put pressure on Iran, Syria, and Hezbollah. It's a unique notion. It's "the Re-direction" * you are seeing it right now. I wrote about in the New Yorker. It's called "the Re-direction."

[leftchick]

http://www.counterpunch.org/ali01152008.html

On the Iraq War, Bush Foreign Policy, Private Contractors and the Prospects of War with Iran

Going 15 Rounds with Seymour Hersh
By WAJAHAT ALI

"I'm having a horrible day," grumbled Seymour Hersh, the 70 year-old Pulitzer Prize winning investigative journalist, arguably the most revered of his time, and reporter for the prestigious New Yorker magazine.

Almost a week before, I called Seymour Hersh on a lark trying to score an interview regarding his New Yorker article "Shifting Targets: The Administration's plan for Iran," an explosive piece outlining the Bush Administration's strategic and aggressive preparation for a potential attack on Iran. When Hersh writes, everyone reads, and the world pays attention.

Even The White House, through press secretary Dana Perino, was forced to respond to his article, publicly stating, "[The White House] is not going to comment on any possible scenario that an anonymous source continues to feed into Sy HershWe don't discuss such thingsWe are pursuing a diplomatic solution in Iran."

<snip>

"Ok, a sample question. Suppose we did this interview, what would a sample question sound like? Hit me with a sample question. Go!" commanded Hersh.

The bell rings. The Heavyweight advances, and now you're on your toes for Round 1.

ALI: (Slightly flustered and caught off guard) Ok, I have one. Here's a sample. Recently at the Democratic debate, Senator Mike Gravel called out Hillary Clinton for voting on Senator Lieberman's aggressive resolution against Iran that condemned Iran's Revolutionary Guard as a terrorist group. What I want to ask is, should we expect anything different from the Democrats if they are elected in regards to U.S. foreign policy, specifically in regards to Iraq? Iran?

HERSH: I have no idea. I would certainly hope so. How would I possible know? I don't see them doing anything different with Iraq, despite concede it. Just concede it * I don't know what else they can do that is different. And who says they're going to win? I don't see that they are going to win. I'm not sure they are, and I don't know why people think that. They haven't done anything different. They haven't brought anything new to the table that hasn't already been said by the Republicans. They just talk the talk. They talk the talk. If I knew this * I mean, who would win (the presidential race), I'd be at the race track everyday. Not reporting. You just don't know. No one knows. Listen, this is politics, and I'm just a guy who writes * who writes stories about the war. When people ask me about politics it drives me crazy! I'm not a fan of politics. I don't like discussing politics. You can't make me something I'm not.

ALI: I understand. Trust me, trust me, I'm not trying to. But, there you go, that would be an example of a sample question if we did an interview *

HERSH: What!? We are doing an interview! What the fuck were you doing?! This is the interview! Get out your recorder, let's go. Let's go."

ALI: Ok, great, let's do it. Private contractors in Iraq, specifically Blackwater, have been on the news nonstop for the past few months regarding numerous allegations of reckless shooting and violence. What's your take on this?

HERSH: Oh, there's been a lot of wrongdoing by them. A lot of arrogance. [Blackwater] drive around like they own the world over there. They increase a lot of resentment amongst the Iraqi civilian population against us [The U.S.] by behaving like this. Listen, if you're an occupier then you act like an occupier. Occupiers act like occupiers. There is no way that Iraqi people will ever respond in any positive way to what Blackwater does.

<snip>

ALI: Over the past couple of years, it's become fashionable and clichéd amongst certain circles to compare our involvement in Iraq to the Vietnam War. Now, you've been there, you were there reporting on Vietnam, breaking the My Lai massacre story back then. And here you are now with Iraq. As a person who has actually lived through it and reported on both, are there any similarities, or is it premature to compare?

HERSH: One thing is similar. We are out there fighting in a country with uneducated, 18 year old boys with weapons. They're frightened - frightened. They're frightened because they don't know the country, they don't know the culture. They're not even interested in knowing about the culture. Fear is there. [The U.S. soldiers] never see an enemy sometimes, and weeks go by. And they continue to lose fellow soldiers, they lose them to snipers, they lose them to mines, and eventually and inevitably, they take the war to the people they can see. And in Iraq, that's the local population. Happens in all wars. All of 'em. Civilians are the ones treated differently.

Vietnam was always a tactical mistake. We lose the war, we are driven off in '75, and in four to five years we are back in that country playing Monopoly with Vietnam's economy. You know, making investments, several investments in that country. That is not 'gonna happen here. We are in a strategic debate with about 1.3, what, 1.5 billion Muslims -

<snip>

ALI: So there's this rise of Anti-Americanism unfortunately around that region. In your research, have you found the main cause of hatred against America?

HERSH: American violence. It's the violence. Do we know * I mean, how many bombs are dropped? How many shells are fired? Who knows what the accurate number is? I know I don't. There was, last year I think, I believe there was a number reported in the "The Lancet" that said the Iraqi causalities numbered in 600,000 killed [The Lancet medical journal reporting published in October '06 estimated 654,965 excess deaths related to the war, or 2.5% of the population]. That number is breathtakingit's breathtaking. I believe, however, the numbers and causalities are actually much greater than have been reported.

Every family in Iraq knows someone who has been killed. Americans are invariably blamed. We are going to have serious situations resulting from that. This is a society [Iraq] that does deal with revenge. We probably created a lot of new jihadists and martyrs and anger, anger with how we behaved and the resulting casualties that are innocent Iraqis.

ALI: On the ground in Iraq, what specifically causes the blowback against our troops, what causes the violence?

HERSH: Americans are frightened. They are frightened in Iraq. Not frightened in, you know, a cowardly way. But frightened like anyone * I mean, it's natural to be like that, anyone would. You're a solider in Iraq, you're now manning a checkpoint there. You don't know the language, you don't know Arabic. You don't know their culture. Now, [the Iraqis] arrive at the checkpoints. They miss the checkpoints. You yell at them to stop, but they don't understand you, they don't speak the language, so they keep driving. They don't stop. You open fire. And now you've made enemies. We are occupiers right now.

ALI: I want to get back to the Sunni-Shia comment you made. As you know, America has history in that region, specifically the Iran-Iraq war of the 1980's. We know that the U.S., through then Vice President Bush, was heavily involved, trying to bleed both sides against the middle, weakening the Shia theocracy of Iran and hedging bets for the Sunni regime of Saddam. So, now, is it going to be good 'ol "divide and conquer" with the sectarian situation? How will U.S. forces and policy play with the Sunni-Shia dynamic in the Muslim world?

HERSH: Brother versus brother. It's going to be brother versus brother. Sunni versus Shia. There's an incredible sectarian war happening right now in Iraq. Things are always tense between both groups there. We know Saddam mistreated the Shia when he was in power. But, it was nothing then like it is now. The killing now is unbelievable.

The new policy of America is that we are going to work with Israelis and moderate Sunnis, those include Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia. We're going to join forces with Western forces in Europe. Then, America and Israel are going to go after people we don't like. People like Iran, Hamas, Hizbollah. There is a coalition forming, a coalition that forms and pits brother against brother, a fitnah. You know that's not an exact meaning of the word, it's an Arabic word. But it's fitnah [dissention, disunity]. And we have strange bedfellows working with us * Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia - all are going to be used to put pressure on Iran, Syria, and Hezbollah. It's a unique notion. It's "the Re-direction" * you are seeing it right now. I wrote about in the New Yorker. It's called "the Re-direction."

[leftchick]

http://www.counterpunch.org/ali01152008.html

On the Iraq War, Bush Foreign Policy, Private Contractors and the Prospects of War with Iran

Going 15 Rounds with Seymour Hersh
By WAJAHAT ALI

"I'm having a horrible day," grumbled Seymour Hersh, the 70 year-old Pulitzer Prize winning investigative journalist, arguably the most revered of his time, and reporter for the prestigious New Yorker magazine.

Almost a week before, I called Seymour Hersh on a lark trying to score an interview regarding his New Yorker article "Shifting Targets: The Administration's plan for Iran," an explosive piece outlining the Bush Administration's strategic and aggressive preparation for a potential attack on Iran. When Hersh writes, everyone reads, and the world pays attention.

Even The White House, through press secretary Dana Perino, was forced to respond to his article, publicly stating, "[The White House] is not going to comment on any possible scenario that an anonymous source continues to feed into Sy HershWe don't discuss such thingsWe are pursuing a diplomatic solution in Iran."

<snip>

"Ok, a sample question. Suppose we did this interview, what would a sample question sound like? Hit me with a sample question. Go!" commanded Hersh.

The bell rings. The Heavyweight advances, and now you're on your toes for Round 1.

ALI: (Slightly flustered and caught off guard) Ok, I have one. Here's a sample. Recently at the Democratic debate, Senator Mike Gravel called out Hillary Clinton for voting on Senator Lieberman's aggressive resolution against Iran that condemned Iran's Revolutionary Guard as a terrorist group. What I want to ask is, should we expect anything different from the Democrats if they are elected in regards to U.S. foreign policy, specifically in regards to Iraq? Iran?

HERSH: I have no idea. I would certainly hope so. How would I possible know? I don't see them doing anything different with Iraq, despite concede it. Just concede it * I don't know what else they can do that is different. And who says they're going to win? I don't see that they are going to win. I'm not sure they are, and I don't know why people think that. They haven't done anything different. They haven't brought anything new to the table that hasn't already been said by the Republicans. They just talk the talk. They talk the talk. If I knew this * I mean, who would win (the presidential race), I'd be at the race track everyday. Not reporting. You just don't know. No one knows. Listen, this is politics, and I'm just a guy who writes * who writes stories about the war. When people ask me about politics it drives me crazy! I'm not a fan of politics. I don't like discussing politics. You can't make me something I'm not.

ALI: I understand. Trust me, trust me, I'm not trying to. But, there you go, that would be an example of a sample question if we did an interview *

HERSH: What!? We are doing an interview! What the fuck were you doing?! This is the interview! Get out your recorder, let's go. Let's go."

ALI: Ok, great, let's do it. Private contractors in Iraq, specifically Blackwater, have been on the news nonstop for the past few months regarding numerous allegations of reckless shooting and violence. What's your take on this?

HERSH: Oh, there's been a lot of wrongdoing by them. A lot of arrogance. [Blackwater] drive around like they own the world over there. They increase a lot of resentment amongst the Iraqi civilian population against us [The U.S.] by behaving like this. Listen, if you're an occupier then you act like an occupier. Occupiers act like occupiers. There is no way that Iraqi people will ever respond in any positive way to what Blackwater does.

<snip>

ALI: Over the past couple of years, it's become fashionable and clichéd amongst certain circles to compare our involvement in Iraq to the Vietnam War. Now, you've been there, you were there reporting on Vietnam, breaking the My Lai massacre story back then. And here you are now with Iraq. As a person who has actually lived through it and reported on both, are there any similarities, or is it premature to compare?

HERSH: One thing is similar. We are out there fighting in a country with uneducated, 18 year old boys with weapons. They're frightened - frightened. They're frightened because they don't know the country, they don't know the culture. They're not even interested in knowing about the culture. Fear is there. [The U.S. soldiers] never see an enemy sometimes, and weeks go by. And they continue to lose fellow soldiers, they lose them to snipers, they lose them to mines, and eventually and inevitably, they take the war to the people they can see. And in Iraq, that's the local population. Happens in all wars. All of 'em. Civilians are the ones treated differently.

Vietnam was always a tactical mistake. We lose the war, we are driven off in '75, and in four to five years we are back in that country playing Monopoly with Vietnam's economy. You know, making investments, several investments in that country. That is not 'gonna happen here. We are in a strategic debate with about 1.3, what, 1.5 billion Muslims -

<snip>

ALI: So there's this rise of Anti-Americanism unfortunately around that region. In your research, have you found the main cause of hatred against America?

HERSH: American violence. It's the violence. Do we know * I mean, how many bombs are dropped? How many shells are fired? Who knows what the accurate number is? I know I don't. There was, last year I think, I believe there was a number reported in the "The Lancet" that said the Iraqi causalities numbered in 600,000 killed [The Lancet medical journal reporting published in October '06 estimated 654,965 excess deaths related to the war, or 2.5% of the population]. That number is breathtakingit's breathtaking. I believe, however, the numbers and causalities are actually much greater than have been reported.

Every family in Iraq knows someone who has been killed. Americans are invariably blamed. We are going to have serious situations resulting from that. This is a society [Iraq] that does deal with revenge. We probably created a lot of new jihadists and martyrs and anger, anger with how we behaved and the resulting casualties that are innocent Iraqis.

ALI: On the ground in Iraq, what specifically causes the blowback against our troops, what causes the violence?

HERSH: Americans are frightened. They are frightened in Iraq. Not frightened in, you know, a cowardly way. But frightened like anyone * I mean, it's natural to be like that, anyone would. You're a solider in Iraq, you're now manning a checkpoint there. You don't know the language, you don't know Arabic. You don't know their culture. Now, [the Iraqis] arrive at the checkpoints. They miss the checkpoints. You yell at them to stop, but they don't understand you, they don't speak the language, so they keep driving. They don't stop. You open fire. And now you've made enemies. We are occupiers right now.

ALI: I want to get back to the Sunni-Shia comment you made. As you know, America has history in that region, specifically the Iran-Iraq war of the 1980's. We know that the U.S., through then Vice President Bush, was heavily involved, trying to bleed both sides against the middle, weakening the Shia theocracy of Iran and hedging bets for the Sunni regime of Saddam. So, now, is it going to be good 'ol "divide and conquer" with the sectarian situation? How will U.S. forces and policy play with the Sunni-Shia dynamic in the Muslim world?

HERSH: Brother versus brother. It's going to be brother versus brother. Sunni versus Shia. There's an incredible sectarian war happening right now in Iraq. Things are always tense between both groups there. We know Saddam mistreated the Shia when he was in power. But, it was nothing then like it is now. The killing now is unbelievable.

The new policy of America is that we are going to work with Israelis and moderate Sunnis, those include Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia. We're going to join forces with Western forces in Europe. Then, America and Israel are going to go after people we don't like. People like Iran, Hamas, Hizbollah. There is a coalition forming, a coalition that forms and pits brother against brother, a fitnah. You know that's not an exact meaning of the word, it's an Arabic word. But it's fitnah [dissention, disunity]. And we have strange bedfellows working with us * Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia - all are going to be used to put pressure on Iran, Syria, and Hezbollah. It's a unique notion. It's "the Re-direction" * you are seeing it right now. I wrote about in the New Yorker. It's called "the Re-direction."

[leftchick]

http://www.counterpunch.org/ali01152008.html

On the Iraq War, Bush Foreign Policy, Private Contractors and the Prospects of War with Iran

Going 15 Rounds with Seymour Hersh
By WAJAHAT ALI

"I'm having a horrible day," grumbled Seymour Hersh, the 70 year-old Pulitzer Prize winning investigative journalist, arguably the most revered of his time, and reporter for the prestigious New Yorker magazine.

Almost a week before, I called Seymour Hersh on a lark trying to score an interview regarding his New Yorker article "Shifting Targets: The Administration's plan for Iran," an explosive piece outlining the Bush Administration's strategic and aggressive preparation for a potential attack on Iran. When Hersh writes, everyone reads, and the world pays attention.

Even The White House, through press secretary Dana Perino, was forced to respond to his article, publicly stating, "[The White House] is not going to comment on any possible scenario that an anonymous source continues to feed into Sy HershWe don't discuss such thingsWe are pursuing a diplomatic solution in Iran."

<snip>

"Ok, a sample question. Suppose we did this interview, what would a sample question sound like? Hit me with a sample question. Go!" commanded Hersh.

The bell rings. The Heavyweight advances, and now you're on your toes for Round 1.

ALI: (Slightly flustered and caught off guard) Ok, I have one. Here's a sample. Recently at the Democratic debate, Senator Mike Gravel called out Hillary Clinton for voting on Senator Lieberman's aggressive resolution against Iran that condemned Iran's Revolutionary Guard as a terrorist group. What I want to ask is, should we expect anything different from the Democrats if they are elected in regards to U.S. foreign policy, specifically in regards to Iraq? Iran?

HERSH: I have no idea. I would certainly hope so. How would I possible know? I don't see them doing anything different with Iraq, despite concede it. Just concede it * I don't know what else they can do that is different. And who says they're going to win? I don't see that they are going to win. I'm not sure they are, and I don't know why people think that. They haven't done anything different. They haven't brought anything new to the table that hasn't already been said by the Republicans. They just talk the talk. They talk the talk. If I knew this * I mean, who would win (the presidential race), I'd be at the race track everyday. Not reporting. You just don't know. No one knows. Listen, this is politics, and I'm just a guy who writes * who writes stories about the war. When people ask me about politics it drives me crazy! I'm not a fan of politics. I don't like discussing politics. You can't make me something I'm not.

ALI: I understand. Trust me, trust me, I'm not trying to. But, there you go, that would be an example of a sample question if we did an interview *

HERSH: What!? We are doing an interview! What the fuck were you doing?! This is the interview! Get out your recorder, let's go. Let's go."

ALI: Ok, great, let's do it. Private contractors in Iraq, specifically Blackwater, have been on the news nonstop for the past few months regarding numerous allegations of reckless shooting and violence. What's your take on this?

HERSH: Oh, there's been a lot of wrongdoing by them. A lot of arrogance. [Blackwater] drive around like they own the world over there. They increase a lot of resentment amongst the Iraqi civilian population against us [The U.S.] by behaving like this. Listen, if you're an occupier then you act like an occupier. Occupiers act like occupiers. There is no way that Iraqi people will ever respond in any positive way to what Blackwater does.

<snip>

ALI: Over the past couple of years, it's become fashionable and clichéd amongst certain circles to compare our involvement in Iraq to the Vietnam War. Now, you've been there, you were there reporting on Vietnam, breaking the My Lai massacre story back then. And here you are now with Iraq. As a person who has actually lived through it and reported on both, are there any similarities, or is it premature to compare?

HERSH: One thing is similar. We are out there fighting in a country with uneducated, 18 year old boys with weapons. They're frightened - frightened. They're frightened because they don't know the country, they don't know the culture. They're not even interested in knowing about the culture. Fear is there. [The U.S. soldiers] never see an enemy sometimes, and weeks go by. And they continue to lose fellow soldiers, they lose them to snipers, they lose them to mines, and eventually and inevitably, they take the war to the people they can see. And in Iraq, that's the local population. Happens in all wars. All of 'em. Civilians are the ones treated differently.

Vietnam was always a tactical mistake. We lose the war, we are driven off in '75, and in four to five years we are back in that country playing Monopoly with Vietnam's economy. You know, making investments, several investments in that country. That is not 'gonna happen here. We are in a strategic debate with about 1.3, what, 1.5 billion Muslims -

<snip>

ALI: So there's this rise of Anti-Americanism unfortunately around that region. In your research, have you found the main cause of hatred against America?

HERSH: American violence. It's the violence. Do we know * I mean, how many bombs are dropped? How many shells are fired? Who knows what the accurate number is? I know I don't. There was, last year I think, I believe there was a number reported in the "The Lancet" that said the Iraqi causalities numbered in 600,000 killed [The Lancet medical journal reporting published in October '06 estimated 654,965 excess deaths related to the war, or 2.5% of the population]. That number is breathtakingit's breathtaking. I believe, however, the numbers and causalities are actually much greater than have been reported.

Every family in Iraq knows someone who has been killed. Americans are invariably blamed. We are going to have serious situations resulting from that. This is a society [Iraq] that does deal with revenge. We probably created a lot of new jihadists and martyrs and anger, anger with how we behaved and the resulting casualties that are innocent Iraqis.

ALI: On the ground in Iraq, what specifically causes the blowback against our troops, what causes the violence?

HERSH: Americans are frightened. They are frightened in Iraq. Not frightened in, you know, a cowardly way. But frightened like anyone * I mean, it's natural to be like that, anyone would. You're a solider in Iraq, you're now manning a checkpoint there. You don't know the language, you don't know Arabic. You don't know their culture. Now, [the Iraqis] arrive at the checkpoints. They miss the checkpoints. You yell at them to stop, but they don't understand you, they don't speak the language, so they keep driving. They don't stop. You open fire. And now you've made enemies. We are occupiers right now.

ALI: I want to get back to the Sunni-Shia comment you made. As you know, America has history in that region, specifically the Iran-Iraq war of the 1980's. We know that the U.S., through then Vice President Bush, was heavily involved, trying to bleed both sides against the middle, weakening the Shia theocracy of Iran and hedging bets for the Sunni regime of Saddam. So, now, is it going to be good 'ol "divide and conquer" with the sectarian situation? How will U.S. forces and policy play with the Sunni-Shia dynamic in the Muslim world?

HERSH: Brother versus brother. It's going to be brother versus brother. Sunni versus Shia. There's an incredible sectarian war happening right now in Iraq. Things are always tense between both groups there. We know Saddam mistreated the Shia when he was in power. But, it was nothing then like it is now. The killing now is unbelievable.

The new policy of America is that we are going to work with Israelis and moderate Sunnis, those include Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia. We're going to join forces with Western forces in Europe. Then, America and Israel are going to go after people we don't like. People like Iran, Hamas, Hizbollah. There is a coalition forming, a coalition that forms and pits brother against brother, a fitnah. You know that's not an exact meaning of the word, it's an Arabic word. But it's fitnah [dissention, disunity]. And we have strange bedfellows working with us * Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia - all are going to be used to put pressure on Iran, Syria, and Hezbollah. It's a unique notion. It's "the Re-direction" * you are seeing it right now. I wrote about in the New Yorker. It's called "the Re-direction."

[leftchick]

http://www.counterpunch.org/ali01152008.html

On the Iraq War, Bush Foreign Policy, Private Contractors and the Prospects of War with Iran

Going 15 Rounds with Seymour Hersh
By WAJAHAT ALI

"I'm having a horrible day," grumbled Seymour Hersh, the 70 year-old Pulitzer Prize winning investigative journalist, arguably the most revered of his time, and reporter for the prestigious New Yorker magazine.

Almost a week before, I called Seymour Hersh on a lark trying to score an interview regarding his New Yorker article "Shifting Targets: The Administration's plan for Iran," an explosive piece outlining the Bush Administration's strategic and aggressive preparation for a potential attack on Iran. When Hersh writes, everyone reads, and the world pays attention.

Even The White House, through press secretary Dana Perino, was forced to respond to his article, publicly stating, "[The White House] is not going to comment on any possible scenario that an anonymous source continues to feed into Sy HershWe don't discuss such thingsWe are pursuing a diplomatic solution in Iran."

<snip>

"Ok, a sample question. Suppose we did this interview, what would a sample question sound like? Hit me with a sample question. Go!" commanded Hersh.

The bell rings. The Heavyweight advances, and now you're on your toes for Round 1.

ALI: (Slightly flustered and caught off guard) Ok, I have one. Here's a sample. Recently at the Democratic debate, Senator Mike Gravel called out Hillary Clinton for voting on Senator Lieberman's aggressive resolution against Iran that condemned Iran's Revolutionary Guard as a terrorist group. What I want to ask is, should we expect anything different from the Democrats if they are elected in regards to U.S. foreign policy, specifically in regards to Iraq? Iran?

HERSH: I have no idea. I would certainly hope so. How would I possible know? I don't see them doing anything different with Iraq, despite concede it. Just concede it * I don't know what else they can do that is different. And who says they're going to win? I don't see that they are going to win. I'm not sure they are, and I don't know why people think that. They haven't done anything different. They haven't brought anything new to the table that hasn't already been said by the Republicans. They just talk the talk. They talk the talk. If I knew this * I mean, who would win (the presidential race), I'd be at the race track everyday. Not reporting. You just don't know. No one knows. Listen, this is politics, and I'm just a guy who writes * who writes stories about the war. When people ask me about politics it drives me crazy! I'm not a fan of politics. I don't like discussing politics. You can't make me something I'm not.

ALI: I understand. Trust me, trust me, I'm not trying to. But, there you go, that would be an example of a sample question if we did an interview *

HERSH: What!? We are doing an interview! What the fuck were you doing?! This is the interview! Get out your recorder, let's go. Let's go."

ALI: Ok, great, let's do it. Private contractors in Iraq, specifically Blackwater, have been on the news nonstop for the past few months regarding numerous allegations of reckless shooting and violence. What's your take on this?

HERSH: Oh, there's been a lot of wrongdoing by them. A lot of arrogance. [Blackwater] drive around like they own the world over there. They increase a lot of resentment amongst the Iraqi civilian population against us [The U.S.] by behaving like this. Listen, if you're an occupier then you act like an occupier. Occupiers act like occupiers. There is no way that Iraqi people will ever respond in any positive way to what Blackwater does.

<snip>

ALI: Over the past couple of years, it's become fashionable and clichéd amongst certain circles to compare our involvement in Iraq to the Vietnam War. Now, you've been there, you were there reporting on Vietnam, breaking the My Lai massacre story back then. And here you are now with Iraq. As a person who has actually lived through it and reported on both, are there any similarities, or is it premature to compare?

HERSH: One thing is similar. We are out there fighting in a country with uneducated, 18 year old boys with weapons. They're frightened - frightened. They're frightened because they don't know the country, they don't know the culture. They're not even interested in knowing about the culture. Fear is there. [The U.S. soldiers] never see an enemy sometimes, and weeks go by. And they continue to lose fellow soldiers, they lose them to snipers, they lose them to mines, and eventually and inevitably, they take the war to the people they can see. And in Iraq, that's the local population. Happens in all wars. All of 'em. Civilians are the ones treated differently.

Vietnam was always a tactical mistake. We lose the war, we are driven off in '75, and in four to five years we are back in that country playing Monopoly with Vietnam's economy. You know, making investments, several investments in that country. That is not 'gonna happen here. We are in a strategic debate with about 1.3, what, 1.5 billion Muslims -

<snip>

ALI: So there's this rise of Anti-Americanism unfortunately around that region. In your research, have you found the main cause of hatred against America?

HERSH: American violence. It's the violence. Do we know * I mean, how many bombs are dropped? How many shells are fired? Who knows what the accurate number is? I know I don't. There was, last year I think, I believe there was a number reported in the "The Lancet" that said the Iraqi causalities numbered in 600,000 killed [The Lancet medical journal reporting published in October '06 estimated 654,965 excess deaths related to the war, or 2.5% of the population]. That number is breathtakingit's breathtaking. I believe, however, the numbers and causalities are actually much greater than have been reported.

Every family in Iraq knows someone who has been killed. Americans are invariably blamed. We are going to have serious situations resulting from that. This is a society [Iraq] that does deal with revenge. We probably created a lot of new jihadists and martyrs and anger, anger with how we behaved and the resulting casualties that are innocent Iraqis.

ALI: On the ground in Iraq, what specifically causes the blowback against our troops, what causes the violence?

HERSH: Americans are frightened. They are frightened in Iraq. Not frightened in, you know, a cowardly way. But frightened like anyone * I mean, it's natural to be like that, anyone would. You're a solider in Iraq, you're now manning a checkpoint there. You don't know the language, you don't know Arabic. You don't know their culture. Now, [the Iraqis] arrive at the checkpoints. They miss the checkpoints. You yell at them to stop, but they don't understand you, they don't speak the language, so they keep driving. They don't stop. You open fire. And now you've made enemies. We are occupiers right now.

ALI: I want to get back to the Sunni-Shia comment you made. As you know, America has history in that region, specifically the Iran-Iraq war of the 1980's. We know that the U.S., through then Vice President Bush, was heavily involved, trying to bleed both sides against the middle, weakening the Shia theocracy of Iran and hedging bets for the Sunni regime of Saddam. So, now, is it going to be good 'ol "divide and conquer" with the sectarian situation? How will U.S. forces and policy play with the Sunni-Shia dynamic in the Muslim world?

HERSH: Brother versus brother. It's going to be brother versus brother. Sunni versus Shia. There's an incredible sectarian war happening right now in Iraq. Things are always tense between both groups there. We know Saddam mistreated the Shia when he was in power. But, it was nothing then like it is now. The killing now is unbelievable.

The new policy of America is that we are going to work with Israelis and moderate Sunnis, those include Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia. We're going to join forces with Western forces in Europe. Then, America and Israel are going to go after people we don't like. People like Iran, Hamas, Hizbollah. There is a coalition forming, a coalition that forms and pits brother against brother, a fitnah. You know that's not an exact meaning of the word, it's an Arabic word. But it's fitnah [dissention, disunity]. And we have strange bedfellows working with us * Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia - all are going to be used to put pressure on Iran, Syria, and Hezbollah. It's a unique notion. It's "the Re-direction" * you are seeing it right now. I wrote about in the New Yorker. It's called "the Re-direction."

[leftchick]

http://www.counterpunch.org/ali01152008.html

On the Iraq War, Bush Foreign Policy, Private Contractors and the Prospects of War with Iran

Going 15 Rounds with Seymour Hersh
By WAJAHAT ALI

"I'm having a horrible day," grumbled Seymour Hersh, the 70 year-old Pulitzer Prize winning investigative journalist, arguably the most revered of his time, and reporter for the prestigious New Yorker magazine.

Almost a week before, I called Seymour Hersh on a lark trying to score an interview regarding his New Yorker article "Shifting Targets: The Administration's plan for Iran," an explosive piece outlining the Bush Administration's strategic and aggressive preparation for a potential attack on Iran. When Hersh writes, everyone reads, and the world pays attention.

Even The White House, through press secretary Dana Perino, was forced to respond to his article, publicly stating, "[The White House] is not going to comment on any possible scenario that an anonymous source continues to feed into Sy HershWe don't discuss such thingsWe are pursuing a diplomatic solution in Iran."

<snip>

"Ok, a sample question. Suppose we did this interview, what would a sample question sound like? Hit me with a sample question. Go!" commanded Hersh.

The bell rings. The Heavyweight advances, and now you're on your toes for Round 1.

ALI: (Slightly flustered and caught off guard) Ok, I have one. Here's a sample. Recently at the Democratic debate, Senator Mike Gravel called out Hillary Clinton for voting on Senator Lieberman's aggressive resolution against Iran that condemned Iran's Revolutionary Guard as a terrorist group. What I want to ask is, should we expect anything different from the Democrats if they are elected in regards to U.S. foreign policy, specifically in regards to Iraq? Iran?

HERSH: I have no idea. I would certainly hope so. How would I possible know? I don't see them doing anything different with Iraq, despite concede it. Just concede it * I don't know what else they can do that is different. And who says they're going to win? I don't see that they are going to win. I'm not sure they are, and I don't know why people think that. They haven't done anything different. They haven't brought anything new to the table that hasn't already been said by the Republicans. They just talk the talk. They talk the talk. If I knew this * I mean, who would win (the presidential race), I'd be at the race track everyday. Not reporting. You just don't know. No one knows. Listen, this is politics, and I'm just a guy who writes * who writes stories about the war. When people ask me about politics it drives me crazy! I'm not a fan of politics. I don't like discussing politics. You can't make me something I'm not.

ALI: I understand. Trust me, trust me, I'm not trying to. But, there you go, that would be an example of a sample question if we did an interview *

HERSH: What!? We are doing an interview! What the fuck were you doing?! This is the interview! Get out your recorder, let's go. Let's go."

ALI: Ok, great, let's do it. Private contractors in Iraq, specifically Blackwater, have been on the news nonstop for the past few months regarding numerous allegations of reckless shooting and violence. What's your take on this?

HERSH: Oh, there's been a lot of wrongdoing by them. A lot of arrogance. [Blackwater] drive around like they own the world over there. They increase a lot of resentment amongst the Iraqi civilian population against us [The U.S.] by behaving like this. Listen, if you're an occupier then you act like an occupier. Occupiers act like occupiers. There is no way that Iraqi people will ever respond in any positive way to what Blackwater does.

<snip>

ALI: Over the past couple of years, it's become fashionable and clichéd amongst certain circles to compare our involvement in Iraq to the Vietnam War. Now, you've been there, you were there reporting on Vietnam, breaking the My Lai massacre story back then. And here you are now with Iraq. As a person who has actually lived through it and reported on both, are there any similarities, or is it premature to compare?

HERSH: One thing is similar. We are out there fighting in a country with uneducated, 18 year old boys with weapons. They're frightened - frightened. They're frightened because they don't know the country, they don't know the culture. They're not even interested in knowing about the culture. Fear is there. [The U.S. soldiers] never see an enemy sometimes, and weeks go by. And they continue to lose fellow soldiers, they lose them to snipers, they lose them to mines, and eventually and inevitably, they take the war to the people they can see. And in Iraq, that's the local population. Happens in all wars. All of 'em. Civilians are the ones treated differently.

Vietnam was always a tactical mistake. We lose the war, we are driven off in '75, and in four to five years we are back in that country playing Monopoly with Vietnam's economy. You know, making investments, several investments in that country. That is not 'gonna happen here. We are in a strategic debate with about 1.3, what, 1.5 billion Muslims -

<snip>

ALI: So there's this rise of Anti-Americanism unfortunately around that region. In your research, have you found the main cause of hatred against America?

HERSH: American violence. It's the violence. Do we know * I mean, how many bombs are dropped? How many shells are fired? Who knows what the accurate number is? I know I don't. There was, last year I think, I believe there was a number reported in the "The Lancet" that said the Iraqi causalities numbered in 600,000 killed [The Lancet medical journal reporting published in October '06 estimated 654,965 excess deaths related to the war, or 2.5% of the population]. That number is breathtakingit's breathtaking. I believe, however, the numbers and causalities are actually much greater than have been reported.

Every family in Iraq knows someone who has been killed. Americans are invariably blamed. We are going to have serious situations resulting from that. This is a society [Iraq] that does deal with revenge. We probably created a lot of new jihadists and martyrs and anger, anger with how we behaved and the resulting casualties that are innocent Iraqis.

ALI: On the ground in Iraq, what specifically causes the blowback against our troops, what causes the violence?

HERSH: Americans are frightened. They are frightened in Iraq. Not frightened in, you know, a cowardly way. But frightened like anyone * I mean, it's natural to be like that, anyone would. You're a solider in Iraq, you're now manning a checkpoint there. You don't know the language, you don't know Arabic. You don't know their culture. Now, [the Iraqis] arrive at the checkpoints. They miss the checkpoints. You yell at them to stop, but they don't understand you, they don't speak the language, so they keep driving. They don't stop. You open fire. And now you've made enemies. We are occupiers right now.

ALI: I want to get back to the Sunni-Shia comment you made. As you know, America has history in that region, specifically the Iran-Iraq war of the 1980's. We know that the U.S., through then Vice President Bush, was heavily involved, trying to bleed both sides against the middle, weakening the Shia theocracy of Iran and hedging bets for the Sunni regime of Saddam. So, now, is it going to be good 'ol "divide and conquer" with the sectarian situation? How will U.S. forces and policy play with the Sunni-Shia dynamic in the Muslim world?

HERSH: Brother versus brother. It's going to be brother versus brother. Sunni versus Shia. There's an incredible sectarian war happening right now in Iraq. Things are always tense between both groups there. We know Saddam mistreated the Shia when he was in power. But, it was nothing then like it is now. The killing now is unbelievable.

The new policy of America is that we are going to work with Israelis and moderate Sunnis, those include Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia. We're going to join forces with Western forces in Europe. Then, America and Israel are going to go after people we don't like. People like Iran, Hamas, Hizbollah. There is a coalition forming, a coalition that forms and pits brother against brother, a fitnah. You know that's not an exact meaning of the word, it's an Arabic word. But it's fitnah [dissention, disunity]. And we have strange bedfellows working with us * Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia - all are going to be used to put pressure on Iran, Syria, and Hezbollah. It's a unique notion. It's "the Re-direction" * you are seeing it right now. I wrote about in the New Yorker. It's called "the Re-direction."