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eattherich
12-30-2008, 12:56 AM
Mary TF


Post Things not as they seem...
http://www.legitgov.org/comment/rec_report_181208.html

Things Are Not as They Seem

I am disgusted with liberal politics as usual. I am disgusted with the self-congratulations, the self-gratification, the feeling of moral and intellectual superiority voiced by liberal pundits and their sickeningly predictable, patent, self-important, arrogant and superior-feeling followers. Is it enough to be happy that people are throwing shoes at Bush? Are people so gratified with Bush-bashing that they have forgotten that the entire capitalist system is on the brink of collapse? Do they not wonder in disgust as their liberal Democratic heroes work like mad to save the sinking ship? Shouldn't they wonder why such repairs as they recommend come solely at the expense of working people like themselves? Shouldn't the conclusions of leadership be more drastic? Liberalism as it stands has no answers. No answers for the disaster that faces us. Even Barack Obama stated that the usual list of remedies for liberal economic reform is just about spent. Liberalism has nothing left, or next to nothing. What it does have left will not fix what ails us.


Nevertheless, the Democratic electorate and their self-appointed pundits are satisfied. Why, even the "radical" William Ayers, in an interview with Chris Matthews, said that the liberal Democrats are suffering from post-partum depression; because now, I suppose, they have born their baby and there's nothing left to do but feed it. That's the extent of "change" for them. As long as the "correct" attitudes are expressed, they believe all is well. As long as the identity of the president and the composition of Congress are fine by them, then everything is fine by them. No matter that people are losing their jobs by the thousands, that the same people losing their jobs are paying capitalists to "fix" the economy, that workers in the auto industry will be taken back to pre-union standards and nothing will be done for them other than to watch them get screwed...no, just as long as the right attitudes are in play, then all is well. If it weren't so damnable it would be hilarious. But the delusions of the soft, identity-politics-driven liberal Democrats are almost incredible. I haven't seen the likes of such credulity in some time. Everyone is relieved because Bush has had a shoe thrown at him and things are 'changing' soon, so they can all go back home and forget about politics for a while. But that's all that the liberal Democrats wanted--the laissez faire liberals just wanted to usher in the correct attitudes--toward Bush, toward war, toward the environment, toward minorities, toward the rest of the world.

Meanwhile, these "remedies" for the workers and the economy at large are being inaugurated by the very liberal Democrats that everyone elected to change things. Oh, there will be changes. Changes in attitude toward the poor, but not the end of poverty. Changes in attitude toward identity groups, but not material changes in their lives. Changes in how people are referred to, but not changes in the quality of their lives-other than the "sacrifices" they will be expected to make. What sacrifices will Wall Street moguls be expected to make? Notice how big finance was bailed out without a hitch, big finance that produces NOTHING, while the auto industry will not be bailed out, even after they conceded everything-on the "behalf of" the workers? That should tell you quite clearly what liberal Democrats are good for. Class warfare, but not the kind suggested by Republicans. I'm sorry to have to say this, but since no one else is saying it, I guess it must be up to me. The liberal Democrats have been brought in for one reason and one reason only. They are there to soften the blow, to deliver the bad news, to deliver the bad news in milder tones, from a different identity standpoint, so that it's more acceptable-to tell more people in milder tones that they are out of luck. The bad news will simply have a different, more unlikely and thus acceptable bearer, one that didn't enslave them, or lead them to war; or so they think.

Liberalism just wants everyone to feel better about things, to feel that things are better because, hey, we have a black president. That makes every liberal feel better. I am not a liberal but even I feel better. (I'm a Marxist, which is not liberal, left-, nor rightwing.) But I don't want to feel better. That is, I don't want to feel better about things as they are! I want things to actually be better. As Marx wrote about the young Hegelians, they believed that change meant merely changing the consciousness of the oppressed. Liberals, today's young Hegelians, are about changing the consciousness of the oppressed. They are not about changing the conditions that oppress them. Nothing could be clearer than that today. Nothing is clearer than the fact that liberalism can offer nothing, or next to nothing.

Economic reform is impossible under liberalism today because capitalism is failing. Capitalism cannot offer concessions and reforms. That's what liberalism was generally good for, so what is it good is it now? Instead of positive reform, the likes that FDR, the self-proclaimed best friend of capitalism ushered in, liberalism will now do the workers a favor by offering concessions in their name. Thanks. Thanks for keeping afloat the system that oppresses us. Thanks for bailing out a system, using our tax money, our public funds, our wages, to screw us over further in the future. Thanks for "saving" a system that will serve to cut our wages, destroy whatever savings we may have by chance accrued, gut our retirement packages, and decimate our health care systems. Thanks. Yesterday's New Deal is today's Raw Deal.

Since liberalism has nothing more to offer in terms of economic reform, what will it present to us?

An endless parade of feel-good identity politics and the "proper" attitudes- toward Republicans and Bush, toward the environment, toward war, toward minorities, toward "difference." Get ready for nothing but attitude, nothing but sermons and admonishments for the 'bad' people, and self-congratulations for the 'good' people. Such will be the fare of the day because liberalism has nothing else!

Liberalism will now inaugurate a new, fleeting era of good feelings and feel-good politics aimed at making everyone feel equal. The key word here is "feel," because people will not actually be equal, except in the most abstract, de jure sense. De facto, some people will be equally dispossessed and a smaller number will be equally disconnected from the dispossessed. But, alas, this feel-good moment will be fleeting, because it will be outlasted by the economic disaster that liberalism cannot prevent or ameliorate.

But for the time being, liberals will now sit back on their electoral laurels and enjoy their feelings, not the least of which is their feeling of moral and intellectual superiority. They have ushered in the "correct" attitudes-toward religion, toward science, toward the environment, toward minorities, toward homosexuality, toward race. First will come a season of laudatory self-congratulations all around. The talk show hosts will continue to knock each other out with pats on the backs for their proper, correct, feel-good, self-satisfied feelings of moral and intellectual superiority. They did it. They helped elect a black president. Identity politics will be used, as usual, as a thin scrim to hide much deeper problems. For those who heralded it--they will continue to consider themselves the superior moral beings. Bravo!

But as Marx wrote, the new Hegelians (equiva

lent to today's liberals) think that people are enslaved by their consciousness and that to liberate people, we only need to liberate people from false consciousness---from ideology, from religion, from retrograde attitudes about science, evolution, sexual orientation, minorities, difference, race, etc. All we need is to have the right ideas and everything else will be fine. But people are not enslaved by consciousness, ideas, or attitudes. No, people are enslaved by the material conditions that produce their consciousness, ideas, and attitudes. If these material conditions do not change, or get worse, their feelings will return to the bad kind that liberals seek to change through their attitude adjustment programs.

This brings me to Marx's famous pronouncement about religion, which is so poorly understood. Never did Marx condemn people for being religious. Such a condemnation is anathema to a truly humanistic understanding of religion. Denigration of religious people is a denigration of people, and thus, anti-humanistic. Unlike snobs, who smugly denigrate religious people (Christopher Hitchens, Richard Dawkins, and Bill Maher come to mind), Marx never condemned people for being religious. What Marx does condemn are the conditions of a society that make religion necessary:

Religious suffering is at the same time an expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sign of the oppressed creature, the sentiment of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people (Marx, Introduction to Contribution to the Critique of Hegel's Philosophy of Right).

Religion exists as it does because people are oppressed, because "hope" for a future, for goodness in some other realm, in some other order of being, for freedom from oppression, is all that they have. Religion is a displacement of equity, prosperity, and justice onto a realm outside of the human realm, because the human realm lacks such qualities. To denigrate religion is to denigrate human desire for all that religion displaces. But the fact that people can imagine such goodness, such justice, such benevolence and freedom testifies to the fact that human society can be all that it lacks. As such, the existence of religion disproves the cynics who claim that "human nature" simply involves selfishness, nastiness, competitive individualism, and so forth. Likewise, a true humanist doesn't work hard to eradicate religion. A true humanist works to eradicate the conditions that make religion necessary. In other words, a true humanist condemns liberals more than religions, because liberalism permits such oppression as makes religion necessary.

So what do I recommend instead of liberalism, which has recommended nothing but an attitude change? For starters, I recommend a nationalization of all major industries with assets of over 10 billion-owned by the people, not bailed out by the tax payer and only to be used for more profit and exploitation of the very same people who paid to bail the bastards out. The bailouts are all so sickening I can barely speak of them. But their support by the Democrats should be the final tip-off to anyone really seeking change that the Democrats are not and will never be the ones to bring it about. I recommend finally dismissing the illusion that Democrats offer anything other than attitudes and words. This comes at a strange time, you may say, just when liberalism seems to be more than it ever was. Well, this is a last hurrah, I tell you, a last gasp at seeming, and it will soon be clear that things are not as they seem.

Dr. Rec, The Rec Report

Michael D. Rectenwald, Ph.D.



Permanent URL for this article:
http://www.legitgov.org/comment/rec_report_181208.html

eattherich
12-30-2008, 12:57 AM
Mary the only Hegel liberals know is Chuck and its all down hill from there..

http://www.evancarmichael.com/Yutong/version5/images/Charles-Schwab.jpg



What the "Doc" should do is direct some of his blistering criticism inward and sharpen up the rhetoric to match the sharpness of the tongue. Not saying his intention is wrong but, gotta see the Big Picture, which prevents stupid digressions and also prevents one from "accidental" slips of the (sharpened) tongue:

Exhibits A and B


I am not a liberal but even I feel better. (I'm a Marxist, which is not liberal, left-, nor rightwing.) But I don't want to feel better. That is, I don't want to feel better about things as they are! I want things to actually be better.


Since liberalism has nothing more to offer in terms of economic reform

Who gives a shit how anyone "feels", what anyone "wants", or about the prospects for economic "reform"? Declaring oneself a Marxist is worth less than the shit on your shoe. Is this about making things "better"?

That takes us to Exhibit C which is flatly unbelievable:


But as Marx wrote, the new Hegelians (equivalent to today's liberals) think that people are enslaved by their consciousness and that to liberate people, we only need to liberate people from false consciousness---from ideology, from religion, from retrograde attitudes about science, evolution, sexual orientation, minorities, difference, race, etc. All we need is to have the right ideas and everything else will be fine. But people are not enslaved by consciousness, ideas, or attitudes. No, people are enslaved by the material conditions that produce their consciousness, ideas, and attitudes. If these material conditions do not change, or get worse, their feelings will return to the bad kind that liberals seek to change through their attitude adjustment programs.

Unwind this and see what it really says. Is this guy against liberalism or does he sympathize with the "ideals" of liberalism while chastening their methods? And if liberals are modern-day Hegelians then I'm an apeman on the moon.


Never did Marx condemn people for being religious. Such a condemnation is anathema to a truly humanistic understanding of religion. Denigration of religious people is a denigration of people, and thus, anti-humanistic. Unlike snobs, who smugly denigrate religious people (Christopher Hitchens, Richard Dawkins, and Bill Maher come to mind), Marx never condemned people for being religious. What Marx does condemn are the conditions of a society that make religion necessary:

But what's humanism except a hollowed out abstraction, and how does that abstraction differ from 10,000 similarly overwrought liberal platitudes?


Religion is a displacement of equity, prosperity, and justice onto a realm outside of the human realm, because the human realm lacks such qualities. To denigrate religion is to denigrate human desire for all that religion displaces. But the fact that people can imagine such goodness, such justice, such benevolence and freedom testifies to the fact that human society can be all that it lacks. As such, the existence of religion disproves the cynics who claim that "human nature" simply involves selfishness, nastiness, competitive individualism, and so forth. Likewise, a true humanist doesn't work hard to eradicate religion. A true humanist works to eradicate the conditions that make religion necessary. In other words, a true humanist condemns liberals more than religions, because liberalism permits such oppression as makes religion necessary.

What..in..the..fuck..?! Mary, I will just skip ahead and tell you what you've found here. In the modern tradition of closeted homosexuals, you've found yourself a self-loathing liberal. Its all there: equity (I think he meant equality), prospertity, justice, benevolence, freedom, better human society..

Review the litany he provides in his earlier tract against liberals and this guy fills every criteria: smug, self-satisfied, entirely uncritical of himself, superior, sermonizing, self-involved

But forget all that for a minute and ask who he's talking to and who he's trying to convince..

..Dr Rec's answer is inexorably Dr Rec..because how exactly is his dumbass "program" -- comprised of feel-good slogans that tick off the high points of liberalism -- to differentiate itself FROM liberalism?..its a crowded marketplace of ideas afterall


Yep, Doc Rec is a wreck..

eattherich
12-30-2008, 12:57 AM
Its all there: equity (I think he meant equality), prospertity, justice, benevolence, freedom, better human society..



I think he meant "equity":

http://glassian.org/Prism/Luxfer/Paper/stock_certificatet.jpg

eattherich
12-30-2008, 12:58 AM
Mary the only Hegel liberals know is Chuck and its all down hill from there..

http://www.evancarmichael.com/Yutong/version5/images/Charles-Schwab.jpg



What the "Doc" should do is direct some of his blistering criticism inward and sharpen up the rhetoric to match the sharpness of the tongue. Not saying his intention is wrong but, gotta see the Big Picture, which prevents stupid digressions and also prevents one from "accidental" slips of the (sharpened) tongue:

Exhibits A and B


I am not a liberal but even I feel better. (I'm a Marxist, which is not liberal, left-, nor rightwing.) But I don't want to feel better. That is, I don't want to feel better about things as they are! I want things to actually be better.


Since liberalism has nothing more to offer in terms of economic reform

Who gives a shit how anyone "feels", what anyone "wants", or about the prospects for economic "reform"? Declaring oneself a Marxist is worth less than the shit on your shoe. Is this about making things "better"?

That takes us to Exhibit C which is flatly unbelievable:


But as Marx wrote, the new Hegelians (equivalent to today's liberals) think that people are enslaved by their consciousness and that to liberate people, we only need to liberate people from false consciousness---from ideology, from religion, from retrograde attitudes about science, evolution, sexual orientation, minorities, difference, race, etc. All we need is to have the right ideas and everything else will be fine. But people are not enslaved by consciousness, ideas, or attitudes. No, people are enslaved by the material conditions that produce their consciousness, ideas, and attitudes. If these material conditions do not change, or get worse, their feelings will return to the bad kind that liberals seek to change through their attitude adjustment programs.

Unwind this and see what it really says. Is this guy against liberalism or does he sympathize with the "ideals" of liberalism while chastening their methods? And if liberals are modern-day Hegelians then I'm an apeman on the moon.


Never did Marx condemn people for being religious. Such a condemnation is anathema to a truly humanistic understanding of religion. Denigration of religious people is a denigration of people, and thus, anti-humanistic. Unlike snobs, who smugly denigrate religious people (Christopher Hitchens, Richard Dawkins, and Bill Maher come to mind), Marx never condemned people for being religious. What Marx does condemn are the conditions of a society that make religion necessary:

But what's humanism except a hollowed out abstraction, and how does that abstraction differ from 10,000 similarly overwrought liberal platitudes?


Religion is a displacement of equity, prosperity, and justice onto a realm outside of the human realm, because the human realm lacks such qualities. To denigrate religion is to denigrate human desire for all that religion displaces. But the fact that people can imagine such goodness, such justice, such benevolence and freedom testifies to the fact that human society can be all that it lacks. As such, the existence of religion disproves the cynics who claim that "human nature" simply involves selfishness, nastiness, competitive individualism, and so forth. Likewise, a true humanist doesn't work hard to eradicate religion. A true humanist works to eradicate the conditions that make religion necessary. In other words, a true humanist condemns liberals more than religions, because liberalism permits such oppression as makes religion necessary.

What..in..the..fuck..?! Mary, I will just skip ahead and tell you what you've found here. In the modern tradition of closeted homosexuals, you've found yourself a self-loathing liberal. Its all there: equity (I think he meant equality), prospertity, justice, benevolence, freedom, better human society..

Review the litany he provides in his earlier tract against liberals and this guy fills every criteria: smug, self-satisfied, entirely uncritical of himself, superior, sermonizing, self-involved

But forget all that for a minute and ask who he's talking to and who he's trying to convince..

..Dr Rec's answer is inexorably Dr Rec..because how exactly is his dumbass "program" -- comprised of feel-good slogans that tick off the high points of liberalism -- to differentiate itself FROM liberalism?..its a crowded marketplace of ideas afterall


Yep, Doc Rec is a wreck..

LOL, just thought if might open some conversation...thanks for the critique! Maybe he really is talking to himself...

eattherich
12-30-2008, 12:59 AM
Mucous D. Rectumwall

eattherich
12-30-2008, 12:59 AM
LOL, just thought if might open some conversation...thanks for the critique! Maybe he really is talking to himself...

Well, speaking tongue-in-cheek, I wanted to get in a word before Mike came along to reiterate what was in the article.

As for who he's talking to..do you think the article is going to be effective on any enthusiastic Obama supporters?

Obviously there is alot to discuss about liberalism, which is kind of ironic in a way.

eattherich
12-30-2008, 01:00 AM
http://www.legitgov.org/comment/rec_report_181208.html

Things Are Not as They Seem

Well, there are two ways to look at it. On the one hand, the Kid and the Squid are exactly right. This guy is a pretty lame "Marxist". On the other hand, all of a sudden we are drowning in Marxists and Socialists. You can't turn around without somebody calling for the nationalization of somethin'. It's amazing, really. On DU, the worst, most banal philistines have come out of the closet and they are all suddenly Socialist Philistines.

So far, it hasn't meant changing a single other word of the quacking but... either there is a complete desert of "alternative" ideology out there, or... the Rapture really IS coming.

eattherich
12-30-2008, 01:00 AM
I wanted to get in a word before Mike came along to reiterate what was in the article.

Uh, hmmm.

Now what'd I do?

eattherich
12-30-2008, 01:01 AM
http://www.legitgov.org/comment/rec_report_181208.html

Things Are Not as They Seem

Well, there are two ways to look at it. On the one hand, the Kid and the Squid are exactly right. This guy is a pretty lame "Marxist". On the other hand, all of a sudden we are drowning in Marxists and Socialists. You can't turn around without somebody calling for the nationalization of somethin'. It's amazing, really. On DU, the worst, most banal philistines have come out of the closet and they are all suddenly Socialist Philistines.

So far, it hasn't meant changing a single other word of the quacking but... either there is a complete desert of "alternative" ideology out there, or... the Rapture really IS coming.

The Rupture precedes the Rapture and we're just starting that fiasco. I'm voting for "desert of 'alternative' ideology out
there..." You'll know the Rapture has arrived when there's a decent tee-shirt

http://imgs.t-shirts.com/clipartitems/medium/157518.jpg

Right now there's no ideology, just the reality of loss for those other than the 'leet and palpably greater risk for those lower
on the economic spectrum.

Medical problems and emergencies accelerate measurably in times of wide spread financial crisis. Serious mental illnesses
emerge at an even greater rate, given the stresses guaranteed by sudden loss of income and shelter. Those on the margins
who might never emerge into a full disorder do just that. Physical and mental illness are the awful harbingers of this crisis.

On one level, all the pain and suffering, particularly for the vulnerable, is a true horror and completely unnecessary from
a logical point of view. On a more pragmatic level, what's just starting is either the opportunity to for analysis, remediation,
and fundamentally new systems of government and community. It's also the stuff of new levels of theft and control. The
looting of the Treasury, phantom dollars, on an institutional and individual level is quite something and it's all there for the
taking. When that's done and the restlessness spreads into disobedience, then greater control is the last option.

In any other time, theft and control would win out. But it's my opinion that the people in charge are incredibly inept and
down right stupid. I don't see any ability to hold things together.

So how is the message delivered and who delivers it, the message that there's a rational path that doesn't include financial
fantasies and periodic collapse?"

eattherich
12-30-2008, 01:02 AM
I wanted to get in a word before Mike came along to reiterate what was in the article.

Uh, hmmm.

Now what'd I do?

Well it seemed like Mary was tossing a softball into your wheelhouse, which is cool, is all I meant. Wasn't a dig, just me trying for some yucks :)

eattherich
12-30-2008, 01:03 AM
http://www.legitgov.org/comment/rec_report_181208.html

Things Are Not as They Seem

Well, there are two ways to look at it. On the one hand, the Kid and the Squid are exactly right. This guy is a pretty lame "Marxist". On the other hand, all of a sudden we are drowning in Marxists and Socialists. You can't turn around without somebody calling for the nationalization of somethin'. It's amazing, really. On DU, the worst, most banal philistines have come out of the closet and they are all suddenly Socialist Philistines.

So far, it hasn't meant changing a single other word of the quacking but... either there is a complete desert of "alternative" ideology out there, or... the Rapture really IS coming.

The Rupture precedes the Rapture and we're just starting that fiasco. I'm voting for "desert of 'alternative' ideology out
there..." You'll know the Rapture has arrived when there's a decent tee-shirt.


Right now there's no ideology, just the reality of loss for those other than the 'leet and palpably greater risk for those lower
on the economic spectrum.

Medical problems and emergencies accelerate measurably in times of wide spread financial crisis. Serious mental illnesses
emerge at an even greater rate, given the stresses guaranteed by sudden loss of income and shelter. Those on the margins
who might never emerge into a full disorder do just that. Physical and mental illness are the awful harbingers of this crisis.

On one level, all the pain and suffering, particularly for the vulnerable, is a true horror and completely unnecessary from
a logical point of view. On a more pragmatic level, what's just starting is either the opportunity to for analysis, remediation,
and fundamentally new systems of government and community. It's also the stuff of new levels of theft and control. The
looting of the Treasury, phantom dollars, on an institutional and individual level is quite something and it's all there for the
taking. When that's done and the restlessness spreads into disobedience, then greater control is the last option.

In any other time, theft and control would win out. But it's my opinion that the people in charge are incredibly inept and
down right stupid. I don't see any ability to hold things together.

So how is the message delivered and who delivers it, the message that there's a rational path that doesn't include financial
fantasies and periodic collapse?"

I wrote a short blurb on DU about how both the Republican and Democratic Parties are seeing their political coalitions fracture. I said the Republicans responded in 2008 by not being able to find a single candidate who could represent all the factions. I also said, the Democrats responded by putting up a candidate who papered over all the factions through vague, all encompassing messaging. I further said that it was partly due to Obama's skill and partly to Bush but that it wouldn't last (I'm as popular as fleas, over there). All that is true. How it all shapes up will determine what happens next.

In the interim, everyone will deliver " the message that there's a rational path that doesn't include financial fantasies and periodic collapse". It will be a different message each time.
For us, two things:

1) Step up the social criticism - not just the appearance of things, but the underlying social forces that make it inevitable.

2) Take a look at Mikey's recent series on Detroit in one of these threads and on the Republic Sit-In thread. This kind of material is hugely useful as it focuses on the real pain and real fight of real people. You are already seeing the Iraqifacation of America - the daily news on the crisis has come off the front pages, except when it effects mega corporations and billions of dollars. We have to focus, focus, focus on the real conditions.

The Warren thing is important because it is the first significant break in the Obama coalition but other such super-structural breaks will be less important. The two issues that are central are the economy and Foreign Policy (i.e. Afghanistan, which is directly related).

And oh, BTW... YOU get to deliver "the message that there's a rational path that doesn't include financial fantasies and periodic collapse".

.

eattherich
12-30-2008, 01:03 AM
And oh, BTW... YOU get to deliver "the message that there's a rational path that doesn't include financial fantasies and eriodic collapse".

Nice guy, what auto ever do to you?

At first at least, it's gonna be like selling turds.

Right now I think they just think me eccentric, a crazy white boy. The next phase will become more interesting, in a Chinese way.

eattherich
12-30-2008, 01:04 AM
1) Step up the social criticism - not just the appearance of things, but the underlying social forces that make it inevitable.

2) Take a look at Mikey's recent series on Detroit in one of these threads and on the Republic Sit-In thread. This kind of material is hugely useful as it focuses on the real pain and real fight of real people. You are already seeing the Iraqifacation of America - the daily news on the crisis has come off the front pages, except when it effects mega corporations and billions of dollars. We have to focus, focus, focus on the real conditions.

The Warren thing is important because it is the first significant break in the Obama coalition but other such super-structural breaks will be less important. The two issues that are central are the economy and Foreign Policy (i.e. Afghanistan, which is directly related).

.

While the Warren thing may be somewhat important as it seems to indicate a break in the "dream team", I honestly think its a diversionary tactic to break our focus on the the underlying social forces, and, at the same time, is being used as a divisive factor...

Kid of the Black Hole
01-11-2009, 09:33 AM
Hey guys this was actually a thread from PI, so may be more appropriate in the PI Threads forum