What is the response to "A good guy can't win and I want to win."

[Genius]

This is the sort of thing I get from some people I've spoken to about 2008. It's the reason the Democrats and the Republicans keep running clones of each other.

[Two Americas]

How about "good bye?"

There is only a tiny percentage of the population that would say that. Why spend time and energy on them?

[Two Americas]

Is there not something grossly obscene and morally depraved about someone who would look at what is happeining in the world and make their own selfish personal experience of being on the "winning team" the main priority?

I would say that a person who is thinking that way would be the least likely of anyone anywhere in the population to ever be a true ally in anything.

How can you "respond" to that statement? It precludes discussion of anything serious.

[Iverson]

Good bye is just one good one. I say "know your audience." Some people are open to discussion, whereas others aren't.

If I were dealing with a stranger who seems otherwise sane, I'd say, "is that what democratic representation means to you? Winning?" and see what they say. If I were feeling a little fiestier, I'd ask, "so don't you believe in anything?"

Please understand that even among educated computer users who fancy themselves a kind of political cognoscenti, there is a tendency toward exactly the non-reasoning that you're asking about. For example, at some other discussion board, efforts to talk about the philosophical underpinnings of "ABB" were met with visceral outrage and organized smears, and I'm not even talking about TSTSRN.

This is to tell you what you already know: it's an uphill battle to convey even the simplest of ideas.

[JamBoi]

that insanity = doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

In other words IMO our society is addicted to 'winning' and that we need to accept this addiction and go cold turkey. So I say, vote for what and who you believe in and quit the triangulating shit. It'll just get you more of The Duopoly that brought us this mess and we won't get out of it until we have a wider set of choices (ie. 'third' parties) that actually better represent our views and that our society is primarily voting our real values, not just 'to win.' Because when The Duopoly 'wins', we all lose!

[LoneWolf]

In what universe can you call electing someone whose positions or record don't benefit us a "win?"

[Genius]

is all that counts and they don't seem to want to care that the person they are backing disagrees with all their values. They believe they have to lose what they want to win. It's crazy.

[LoneWolf]

It kinda reminds me of a professional sports game. Show up to watch the game live, and see all the fans with their jerseys and other cheer-leading props, fanatically cheering the home team on, and hating forever the opposing team that beats them in the big championship.

Regardless of who the guys on the field played for last year or who they'll play for next year, or that their "performance" is bought and sold regularly.